Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

Alternative to DSQ if not RRS-44.2 - point penalty for overall instead of DSQ - RRS64.2 (Intyerpretation)

Gulboy Guryel
Nationality: Turkey
Imagine the following scenario in a 6-race regatta:

  1. Boat A finished 1st in race 6 of the regatta and won the cup with total 12 points.  
  2. Boat B finished 6th in race 6 resulting in a 2nd at regatta with total 13 points.
  3. Boat C finished 2nd at race 6
  4. Boat D finished 23rd in race 6 and 22nd in the regatta.

Boat D protests Boat C in a port/starboard incident which caused Boat D to hook the upwind mark, a major contributor to her 23rd place finish in race 6.  Boat D also requests redress.

Boat D's protest is upheld and Boat C is DSQ'd in race 6.

With Boat C now DSQ'd in Race 6, Boat B's finish is moved up one place from 6th to 5th in race 6, and now has a regatta total of 12, tied with Boat A.  Boat B wins the tie-breaker with one additional 1st place finish and wins the championship.

Question: Now do you think the protest committee can give Boat C such penalty like deletion of points from overall points instead of DSQ so that the position of A and B in the overall outcome does not change? .. on the basis that A had no part in the incident between C and D?



Created: 20-Sep-14 09:27

Comments

Werner Esswein
Nationality: Germany
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • National Umpire
  • National Race Officer
0
No! RRS 64.1
Created: 20-Sep-14 09:58
Robin Gray
Nationality: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
  • International Race Officer
  • National Race Officer
0
My first thought was Why would you want the positions to remain the same?  If boat C broke a rule - she had the option of taking a penalty on the water which would have dropped her places any way and possibly behind boat B in 6th place.   The PC can not give redress in this situation.

Created: 20-Sep-14 10:03
Gordon Davies
Nationality: Ireland
Certifications:
  • International Judge
1
Dura lex sed lex.

The law is harsh but it is the law!
Created: 20-Sep-14 10:12
David Giddings
Nationality: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
0
Only if the Notice of Race allows the protest committee to award alternate penalties.
Created: 20-Sep-14 10:28
Charles Darley
Nationality: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Certifications:
  • Regional Umpire
0
Do I detect a bit of Boris Johnson Latin there, Gordon?
Created: 20-Sep-14 12:14
Gordon Davies
Nationality: Ireland
Certifications:
  • International Judge
0
Shame on you for suggesting such a thing. Prep school Latin - and about all I can remember.
Created: 20-Sep-14 12:21
P
John D. Farris
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Umpire In Training
  • Club Judge
0
A6.2.
 
If the protest committee decides to give redress by adjusting a boat’s score, the scores of other boats shall not be changed unless the protest committee decides otherwise.
Created: 20-Sep-14 13:50
Werner Esswein
Nationality: Germany
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • National Umpire
  • National Race Officer
0
To David: Is it really possible to add DP for rules of Part2 section 1? See "DISCRETIONARY PENALTIES GUIDELINES
"
Created: 20-Sep-14 13:57
David Giddings
Nationality: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
0
Werner: In the UK, the RYA does not support discretionary penalties for breaches of the Part 1 and 2 rules, except in the context of RYA arbitration or the Exoneration Penalty. Despite this, If the SIs allow for alternate penalties including Part 1 and 2 rules, wouldn't it be up to the PC? 
Created: 20-Sep-14 15:32
Aldo Balelli
Nationality: Italy
Certifications:
  • National Judge
1
As Gordon said, dura lex sed lex. Do something different, and it might seems the PC is making tricks to favour a boat. 
Created: 20-Sep-14 15:38
David Giddings
Nationality: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
0
I don't disagree. My schoolboy Latin isn't as good as Gordon's, he must have been dragged up better.
Created: 20-Sep-14 16:24
Werner Esswein
Nationality: Germany
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • National Umpire
  • National Race Officer
0
To David: What ist about RRS 86.1?
Created: 20-Sep-14 16:28
Satish Kumar Kanwar
Nationality: India
Certifications:
  • International Race Officer
  • National Judge
0
Boat C has been DSQ and as per Rule A6.1 "each boat with a worse finishing place shall be moved up one place." Therefore Boat B wins on her own merit.

The jury needs to be impartial and boats overall position in the regatta should not be affecting their decision. If Boat B wins the regatta as per scoring of Appx A, so be it.

Created: 20-Sep-15 08:10
[You must be signed in to add a comment]
Cookies help us deliver our services. By using our services, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn more