Recent Posts

Recent Comments

  • John, “injury” is in there. It’s 60.3(a)(1) just replacing “may” with “shall”, but also making the required reference at the end of the RRS being changed. 
    Today 01:10
  • Here is a direct link to a blank version of the Google-Doc Protest Form. Blank Protest Form
    Sat 17:42
  • The NOR is allowed to change 85, too. to simplify the SI.
    NOR:
    "The rules changes specified in this NOR apply equally to the SI by reference hereto. This changes RRS 85.
    SI:
    "Note that rules X, Y, and Z are changed by the NOR."

    Sat 14:58
  • Angelo Guarino
    Said Created: Tue 21:09

    "Assuming that the race committee has scored the four boats DNF instead of in their finishing positions and the four boats have subsequently filed for redress and been given their finishing positions."

     I think one of the scenarios here being asked is, given the original FF's and scenario as presented, could the boats request their score be adjusted NOT to their finish place, but rather TLE.  In other words, they want the PC to consider that after they crossed the line, that they, "continued to sail the course" (Def Finish.3).
     
    OK, so either boats have crossed the finishing line in from the course side and should be scored in their finishing place unless they continue to sail the course or they have not yet crossed the finishing line as required by the definition and IMHO should be presumed to be continuing to sail the course.
     
    The question is whether, when the boats crossed the finishing line, they had finished in accordance with the definition.

    If the boats crossed the finishing line from the course side (that is, if the mark before the finishing line was a downwind and crossing the finishing line sailing upwind was crossing from the course side), the issue will be, as a matter of fact, whether they continued to sail the course, and this fact can be resolved by considering the indicia such as furling sails, starting motor, sailing away from the course or racing area.

    ·         If the boats did not continue to sail the course, they have finished and should be scored in their finishing positions.
    ·         If the boats continued to sail the course, they have not yet finished and should be scored when they eventually finish in accordance with the definition or when the time limit expires.

    If the boats crossed the finishing line from other than the course side, whether they continue to sail the course is irrelevant to whether they have finished:  they have not finished, no matter what.  They should not be scored until they finish in accordance with the definition or the time limit expires.

    The race committee observing indicia at any time that a boat is no longer sailing the course, may infer that she has retired and score her RET:  if they are wrong in this, and the boat later informs them that she has not retired, they can correct their error. 


    Angelo Guarino
    Said Created: Tue 23:43
     
     The question I’m proposing is how can we tell if a boat that crosses an open finish-line out of sequence “continues to sail the course”?
     
    There are a number of indicia that a boat is no longer sailing the course such as furling sails, starting motor, sailing away from the course or racing area

     Putting that all together, a boat could cross the line out of order, sail 1/2 way to the appropriate mark for sailing the course and run out of time. Or they could drop an anchor and run out of time.
     
    Anchoring might or might not indicate not sailing the course.  For example a boat may anchor against adverse tide, or for safety at a danger.
     
     Now one might argue that a boat that does cross the finish-line out of order must make it to their next appropriate mark before the TL to be considered to have continued to sail the course after crossing.  Without reaching their next mark in order, they have no way to demonstrate that they continued to sail the course.
      I actually would favor this last argument I think.
     
    Consider your previous example of getting half way to the next mark:  sailing all the way to the next mark is not a good test.
     

    The race committee can NOT score the boats DNF.  The race committee can either:

    1.    Take it that the boats are continuing to sail the course and then if they do not subsequently finish within the time limit, score them TLE
    2.    Score the boats in their place across the line and protest them for breaking rule 28 or
    3.    Score the boats in their place across the line and let it ride.

    If the race committee has scored the boats DNF, or scored them in their place and protested them, they may request redress (or defend themselves in a protest hearing) saying:

    ·         we were continuing to sail the course, had not broken rule 28.1 nor finished at the time we crossed the finishing line
    ·         we subsequently did not finish within the time limit and should be scored TLE in accordance with  the SI.

     

    Fri 05:22
  • Update: I added an email auto-responder that sends a link to the form.  If you send an email to protestform@gmail.com with word "form" in the subject (it could be "form", "protest form", etc) it sends you a reply with the link to the form. - Ang
    Wed 13:02