Forum: Race Committee & Race Management

Pursuit Race Start Rules

Peter Clapp
This past weekend I ran a Pursuit Start race and a few questions came up.

There were 13 starters with ratings that had start times spread over 30 minutes. 2 boats started at 1230, 2 boats at 1300, the other 9 at various times in between based on our 14 mile course. They had all been given their respective start times at the Skippers Meeting. The way I start them is with a Rule 26 start sequence where the first warning signal is sounded at 1225, obviously, a 4 minute signal, a 1 minute and a start horn. This is done with proper flags and horns. From then on, the only signals are verbal, over the VHF radio, where each boat is given their 1 minute to go notice and called clear at their start (if they are). That is to say, only the first boats to start get a warning and a four minute signal. This system has worked well for the fleet for several years.

Questions:
1. When are all boats in the fleet considered racing?
2. When do boats need to have their engines off in light air?
3. Under an I Flag starting penalty, which 1 minute signal is used?

Options:
A. Everything hinges on the first to start sequence.
B. Things start to go in to effect at each boat’s unsignaled time frame.
C. Some combination of these two scenarios.

This is not an aggressive fleet of racers. They follow the rules when they understand them and are looking to better understand them all the time. They prefer to not be disadvantaged by others not approaching the line to start. They don’t bump into each other and would prefer others use their engines to be sure that doesn’t happen.
Created: Yesterday 23:34

Comments

Format:
P
John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Quick turnaround, The answers to some of your questions will depend on exactly what your SI/NOR say.

Can you post links/relevant extracts to those documents to help us along.
Created: Yesterday 23:38
Anthony Martin
We run standard format PHRF races each Sunday, and in Pursuit format on the first Sunday of each month with about 15-20 starters (PHRF: 87 to 225).   We use the Pursuit as a "kinder, gentler" race to induce members to try racing.  In any event we have a set of SI changes to our standard Sunday SIs that address the Pursuit race and a boat is "racing" 4 minutes before her start time.  You can read here the Pursuit SI Changes.
Created: Today 00:12
Peter Clapp
Here are some relevant excerpts from the SI.

9.1 Races will be started by using RRS 26 with the Warning signal made 5 minutes before the starting signal for the first boat to start.
9.2 Being a Pursuit start, subsequent boats will start at their designated times based on handicap. These times will be announced on VHF Channel 72.

This leads to the question about when to start the clock for the time limit.

13.1 The time limit for races will be 3-1/2 hours for the first boat to finish.
13.2 Boats failing to finish within 1 hour after the first boat sails the course and finishes, will be scored Did Not Finish without a hearing. This changes RRS 35, A4 and A5.

As you can see not much is said about what to do anywhere (SI, RRS, Race Management Handbook). Are there SOP’s that help to define this stuff?
Created: Today 00:18
P
John Allan
Nationality: Australia
1. When are all boats in the fleet considered racing?

From their Preparatory Signal.

Australian Sailing has a prescription to RRs 26

Australian Sailing prescribes that when handicap starts apply a boat’s preparatory signal is deemed made four minutes before the boat’s starting time.

Note the first column heading in RRS 26 is 'Minutes before starting signal'

I think it's pretty clear from the SI that the designated time for each boat to start is her starting signal, so her Preparatory Signal is 4 minutes before that, and she is racing from her Preparatory Signal.

2. When do boats need to have their engines off in light air?

'While racing': that is, from the Prep Signal.

There is all sorts of language that can be used to permit boats to use motors for late starts, if you want to go that way.

3. Under an I Flag starting penalty, which 1 minute signal is used?

Well the signal is the I Flag.

Once again, looking at that heading in RRS 26, the 1 Minute period starts one minute before the boat's starting signal.
Created: Today 00:49
P
John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Here's a full strength SI

Winter Series Sailing Instructions – Inclusive of Amendment

Problem with Race Time Limit.

Assuming this is a fun type race followed by some socialing, I'd be inclined to specify the Race Time Limit by time of day as Nick suggests below.

If you don't go that route your SI need.to be tweaked to make clear when the time limit time runs from.  For simplicity I'd be inclined to go for 'From the first starting signal'.
Created: Today 01:06
Dana OBrien
We run a Pursuit Race every Thursday night.  We added the format 5 years ago and its been a great success.  We run Division One and Two Races after the Pursuit for the more serious racers.
Re your specific questions:
- Not sure why you would ever use an I Flag, boats are starting one at a time.
- Because of the spread of start times boats will be motoring to the start across a broad time window.  I would say turn off the engine 4 minutes before their designated start time. 
Created: Today 01:10
P
Benjamin Harding
Nationality: Hong Kong
Interesting.

I'm not sure that any of the described starts (OP/Anthony/Australian Sailing) so far comply with or suitably change RRS 26.

Surely, SI needs to change RRS 26 to suit the pursuit style, including that signals may not be visual, but aural/oral, or perhaps a signal may be 'virtual/deemed', rather than actually made (for first paragraph timing purposes), and that there will be no 1 minute signals.  "These change RRS 26."

For simplicity's sake, something like. "The warning signal for all boats will be at 1225. All preparatory signals and start times will follow GPS-synchronized time with start times per Table XYZ. A boat's preparatory signal will be a virtual signal 4 minutes before her start time. There will be no 1-minute signal.  Start times may also be announced orally on VHF. This changes RRS 26."

Just an idea.
Created: Today 02:13
P
Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
Ben .. I like your approach. I might be even more specific about the lack of visual and audio signals.  Also, not sure "virtual" works for me. 

How about ... 

"Rule 26 is deleted and replaced with the following. The warning signal [,consisting of a single sound signal, will be made] for all boats will be at 1225. [An attention signal consisting of a series of sound signals will be made at 1224. No other sound or visual signals will be made]. 

All preparatory signals and start signals will follow [be taken from] GPS-synchronized time with start times per Table XYZ. A boat's preparatory signal will be a virtual signal 4 minutes before her start time. There will be no 1-minute signal.  Start times may also be announced orally on VHF. This changes RRS 26."

In the NOR ... 
Preparatory signals and start signals will be taken from GPS-synchronized time.  Each boat is responsible for having a device for receiving and displaying GPS-synchronized time. 
Created: Today 15:07
Nick Hutton
Re time limit, instead of a time for the race in hours and minutes, we use a time of day. e.g. for a morning start where the first boat (or division if normal fleet racing) is 10:00 the time limit might be 12:30. If the pursuit handicaps are anything like correct this is more relevant to competitors than a number of hours and minutes. A J24 might start at 10:00 and a Farr 40 OD might start an hour later, but all need to be finished before 12:30, with the pursuit theory being that all boats, in a perfect world, finish at the same time.
Created: Today 02:23
Jim Champ
I was bemused by the concept of a time limit in a pursuit race too, but I think the OP is talking about time on distance handicapping, so I gather its a fixed course length and there is not a rigid finishing time. 
Created: Today 16:10
Capt Tribhuwan Jaiswal
Nationality: India
I feel any deviation arising outside of what is covered by RRS should be suitably addressed in the NOR/SI.

The purpose of these documents is to facilitate efficient and effective conduct of an event as required by the RRS. This off course can be done and limited to using the flexibility afforded by the RRS in dealing with any situation which is not copy book (RRS covered)

The example of an entry to SI given by Benjamin looks quite a good solution to me in this particular situation
Created: Today 02:42
Jerry Thompson
Nationality: United States
How about the following for Pursuit Start races:

X.x  The Race Committee will use RRS 26 for the first boat to start. All other boats will start based on their assigned pursuit Starting Time. The Race Committee will not display flags or make sounds after the first boat starts. This changes RRS 26. 
X.x  RRS 26 is changed by deleting the words “Preparatory signal.” The Preparatory signal is four (4) minutes before a boat’s Starting Time.
X.x  The Starting Times for the Pursuit Class will be posted on the Documents Section on the Official Notice Board. 
X.x  A boat starting later than 10 minutes after her Starting Time will be scored Did Not Start (DNS) without a hearing. This supplements RRS A5.1
 
Created: Today 13:04
Kett Cummins
Attached is our club's Pursuit Start Appendix which replaces RRS 26.  We've used some version of this for about 15 years.

Each boat is racing from her Prep Signal, which is defined as 4 minutes prior to her Start Time (without a signal).

Motoring is allowed (as provided by RRS 42.3.i) to reach the starting area regardless of prep or start time.  We host a prominant pursuit race with a starting area located about 12 NM from the harbor and being late to the start, for whatever reason, already seems enough of a 'penalty' without prohibiting motoring after the prep signal time.

The I Flag Rule time limitation is clearly described in RRS 30.1 (and does not include a signal), so this isn't really an issue.

Kett Cummins


pursuit starting system v2.2.pdf 37.7 KB
Created: Today 15:01
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