Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

RRS vs "Beer can" racers

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Greg Wilkins
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Club Judge
The are some clubs that go "racing" under colregs rather than the RRS.  I think these are often called Beer can races.

What is the situation if one of these beer can races is going around a racing mark (laid by the national authority for the purpose of racing by affiliated clubs) at the same time as a boat really racing under the RRS? Can a boat racing under RRS assume that  another is also under RRS because they are rounding a racing mark, flying a club pennant and for all practical purposes acting like a racing boat?

What if we actually know that the other club is a beer can racer, and has neither accepted the rules, nor has a safety audit nor insurance to cover racing?  I assume we need to treat them with colregs and thus take early and substantial action if we are give way, and hold our speed and course if we are right of way etc.  

But how does that work when the beer can racer contests a mark rounding?  Colregs simply doesn't cover mark roundings as it only provides for avoiding collision and has no provisions to allow a boat to sail her course around an imaginary point that is marked by a buoy that is not a substantial obstruction ?  Moreover what if the beer can racer actually acts like they are under the RRS by trying to establishing inside overlap etc.

Ideally boats under different rules can just stay well clear of each other, but you can't do that if they are rounding your marks!  So any advice on interpreting the rules would be appreciated.




Created: 23-Sep-29 13:05

Comments

P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
1
Greg re: “What is the situation if one of these beer can races is going around a racing mark (laid by the national authority for the purpose of racing by affiliated clubs) at the same time as a boat really racing under the RRS? ”

IMHO the Nat’l authority should have a “sit down” with these clubs and tell [strongly suggest to] them they are not allowed to use these marks at the same time as other regattas that operate under the RRS. That this confusion (flying racing flags and rounding marks) is potentially dangerous and against the basic function of the RRS. 

PS: or require them to operate under the RRS as a condition of simultaneous use of the marks. 
Created: 23-Sep-29 13:15
Ken Hardy
Nationality: United States
1
I'm not aware of any club that does 'beer can racing' not under the RRS, at least not any club I've sailed at in the US.  That said the situation you describe is covered under the preamble to part two:  "When a boat sailing under [the RRS] meets a vessel that is not, she shall comply with the [IRPCAS] or government right-of-way rules."

So, when you meet another boat who is racing, but not under the RRS, you have to follow the COLREGS.  So do they.  If they contest a mark rounding as if they are sailing under the RRS, you still have to follow the COLREGS.  That is not ideal, but that's how it goes.  I do think you could seek redress if your score was negatively impacted.
Created: 23-Sep-29 13:54
Michael Moradzadeh
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
3
I am not a fan of the term "Beer Can" races, as I try to separate my beer and racing.
There ARE clubs who race "outside" the RRS, including one in Monterey County.  It's at best rude to fail to coordinate your marine activity (race, rally, parade, treasure hunt) with another occupying the same space. I'm not sure I'd be completely supportive, at least here in US, of a club claiming some ownership of a patch of water by virtue of having dropped a mark. Civil conversation should be the order of the day.
Created: 23-Sep-29 14:05
Jim Champ
Nationality: United Kingdom
1
Exactly. It's nearly impossible to do close quarters racing under colregs. So most likely any boat attempting to do so is going to be in breach of any number of the regulations. Would I be right in thinking that if a club unwise enough to hold racing under Colregs is affiliated to the National authority then the protest procedure could be invoked, except that the PC would need to apply Colregs? If not, then I guess the normal law of the land would apply, which might, I suppose, include a complaint to harbour master or whatever the local equivalent is if a boat is ignoring colregs in a dangerous manner, eg with mark rounding. 



Created: 23-Sep-29 14:43
Kirsteen Donaldson
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
0
The same situation can arise with formal racing conducted under the RRS.  The preamble to Part 2 allows the rules of Part 2 to be replaced with the right-of-way rules of IRPCAS; many OAs specify that this applies at night.  World Sailing APPENDIX RV provides an alternative replacement for the IRPCAS in overnight or long distance races.  So, when there is another boat in close quarters at night, one firstly has to identify whether the other boat is racing or not; if racing, is it in the same race or not; and if in a different race, is that race using IRPCAS or APPENDIX RV - all in the dark.  And yes, the English Channel does have races run at the same time by different OAs and many cruising boats.  
Created: 23-Sep-29 15:08
John Christman
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • National Judge
  • National Umpire
1
This is why it is critical to say that the RRS applies in your NoR.

There are a number of permutations that arise when one boat sailing under the RRS and the other is sailing under IRPCAS (COLREGS is the old name).

  • Protestee-RRS - Protestor-IRPCAS
    • Protest filed - A PC would hear this applying IRPCAS but can only penalize the protestee under RRS
    • Coast Guard report filed - The CG would apply IRPCAS and could penalize (fines, etc.) either boat

  • Protestee-IRPCAS - Protestor-RRS
    • Protest filed - A PC would hear this applying IRPCAS but can only penalize the protestor under RRS 
    • Coast Guard report filed - The CG would apply IRPCAS and could penalize (fines, etc.) either boat

That the boats not racing under the RRS are using a national authority mark is one of the risks of putting something in the water.  Someone will always try and get there fast.  In our local pond, which has a large number of kayaks, paddle boats, and rented sailboats, our marks seem to have the gravitational pull equivalent to a black hole.  We had to abandon one race because the mark was stuck under a paddle boat.
Created: 23-Sep-29 15:22
Leo Reise
Nationality: Canada
Certifications:
  • International Judge
0
I first looked at this and my reaction was easy - if in doubt stand clear!  (Ever wonder how many damaged boats there are that had right-of-way  or were entitled to room?)
Second is if an event is organized outside of requirements of RRS, personally I would suggest they would have an tough time finding a certified official to be involved with such and event.  The chances of a quality protest committee is slim and none.  World Sailing Officials are prohibited from doing so.  I am not sure about nationally certified officials but would suggest their MNA would not look kindly on their participation.
Last is WS Case 143:
When the organizing authority for an event is not an organization specified in rule 89.1, a party to a hearing does not have access to the appeal process.
Just my thoughts
Created: 23-Sep-29 17:10
Philip Hubbell
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Judge In Training
0
Somewhere in the Regulations a sailor racing under rules other than RRS can be sanctioned and disqualified from racing.
It would take a bit of doing to get WS to list the COLREGS club as an "outlaw." 
But perhaps bringing this to that club's attention might bring about desired change.
Created: 23-Sep-29 17:53
Tj Shea
Certifications:
  • Club Judge
  • Umpire In Training
  • Regional Race Officer
0
So, if you are not racing under the RRS, how does one protest?  IRPCAS does not provide for protests other than going to a maritime court, and the only ones who win there are the lawyers.  I suppose they implement a "you buy me a beer" penalty system.


Created: 23-Sep-29 18:18
John Christman
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • National Judge
  • National Umpire
0
There really aren't any protests.  The only option is to file a report with the CG and follow their procedures.  I guess you could file a suit in admiralty court, but it is unlikely to go anywhere.  They can follow the procedures in the RRS if they want to, but it isn't a real hearing and they certainly can't appeal.
Created: 23-Sep-29 18:48
Jim Champ
Nationality: United Kingdom
0
This is another reason why it's essentially a very bad idea. But presumably any club dysfunctional enough to want to run close quarters racing without RRS will also have a protests aren't allowed culture. But as you say given a serious enough issue it will end up in court. 
Created: 23-Sep-29 19:32
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John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
RRS vs "Beer can" racers
Greg Wilkins
Said Created: Today 13:05
The are some clubs that go "racing" under colregs rather than the RRS.  I think these are often called Beer can races.

'Beer Can' races refers to what we, in Australia would call Twilight or Mid Week races.  As others have said, being 'Beer Can' races does not imply that they are not conducted under the RRS.

What is the situation if one of these beer can non-RRS races is going around a racing mark (laid by the national authority for the purpose of racing by affiliated clubs) at the same time as a boat really racing under the RRS?

Marks laid by the MNA do not get any sort of exclusive use treatment.  Any boat is more or less allowed to sail around any mark or buoy on the water (with the possible exception of the little yellow ones around Garden Island Dockyard).

 Can a boat racing under RRS assume that  another is also under RRS because they are rounding a racing mark, flying a club pennant and for all practical purposes acting like a racing boat?

I think usually yes, unless it is known that that club does not race under the RRS.

What if we actually know that the other club is a beer can racer conducting races not under RRS and has neither accepted the rules, nor has a safety audit nor insurance to cover racing?  I assume we need to treat them with colregs and thus take early and substantial action if we are give way, and hold our speed and course if we are right of way etc.  

With respect to boats that are not racing under the RRS, the Preamble to Part 2 of the RRS provides

When a boat sailing under these rules meets a vessel that is not, she shall comply with the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea (IRPCAS) or government right-of-way rules.

If a boat racing under the RRS had an incident with a boat looking like it was under the RRS, but was not, and the boat under the RRS complied with the RRS, but not with IRPCAS, then in a protest it would be up to the protest committee to sort out which rules applied and, if appropriate penalise the RRS boat for breaking the Preamble.

But how does that work when the beer can Non-RRS racer contests a mark rounding?  Colregs simply doesn't cover mark roundings as it only provides for avoiding collision and has no provisions to allow a boat to sail her course around an imaginary point that is marked by a buoy that is not a substantial obstruction ?  Moreover what if the beer can racer actually acts like they are under the RRS by trying to establishing inside overlap etc.

As others have said, you just about can't race with boats in close proximity at starts and mark-roundings under IRPCAS.

Ideally boats under different rules can just stay well clear of each other, but you can't do that if they are rounding your marks!  So any advice on interpreting the rules would be appreciated.

As you may be aware in an adjudication of an alleged breach of IRPCAS, it will be usual to find that both vessels breached at least one IRPCAS rule and that liability will be apportioned, that is, there is no clear winner or loser.
Created: 23-Sep-29 23:41
Gordon Davies
Nationality: Ireland
Certifications:
  • International Judge
1
There have been several incidents in Ireland in which racing has been organised without fulfilling the minimal requirements to ensure that RRS apply. In incidents in which damage occurred, this meant that protest procedures under RRS could not apply. It also meant that any special insurance policy covering racing did not apply.
On the other hand there is a clear demand, especially in small clubs, to offer the possibility of running more spontaneous racing. With people taking early retirement, working or studying from home, there are sailors who may wish to profit from an opportunity to run a race.
It is possible for clubs to take steps to ensure that such racing can be carried out under RRS.
Created: 23-Sep-30 11:11
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Gordon, I don’t think US Sailing RulesComm has updated this (but would be easy to do) but here is what a basic SI could look like in 2014 (I haven’t gone thru it to see if 2017 requirements are missing)

2014 US Sailing Simple SI’s

Maybe add some basic entry info (maybe as simple as email boat name and skipper to an address) and turn it into a combo NoR/SI. 

PS: such Clubs/RC’s on the water could have a print out of a QR code(s) on a piece of paper (linking to the NOR/SI and entry email) and new boats can signup on the spot (lots of free QR code generators). 
Created: 23-Sep-30 12:00
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John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
Gordon Davies
Said Created: Today 11:11
There have been several incidents in Ireland in which racing has been organised without fulfilling the minimal requirements to ensure that RRS apply. 

What do you consider those 'minimal requirements' are?

Will a NOR, SI, or other document stating, as required by  RRS J1.1(2) that that the event will be governed by the rules as defined in The Racing Rules of Sailing suffice?

Have there been problems with identifying 'the event'?

Would a notice displayed at the club saying 'All racing at this club will be governed by the rules as defined in The Racing Rules of Sailing' meet the requirement? 
Created: 23-Sep-30 14:18
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
John re: “What do you consider those 'minimal requirements' are?”

I’m going to start a thread … using the US Sailing simple SI as a starting point … so we can make a single combo NOR/SI that meets the min RRS standard as stated in the 2017 Appx J
Created: 23-Sep-30 14:28
Gordon Davies
Nationality: Ireland
Certifications:
  • International Judge
0
The minimal requirements are set out in App J. However, these rule set out the contents, not the format of race documents
 
The main items can be set out in a set of standard race documents applying to all club racing.
The club registration form for boats can include a sentence for the boat owner to agree that all club racing will be governed by the RRS.
Rules for club racing can include a procedure in which a a Whatsapp group administrator can announce details of any race - date, time, classes, course etc
Boats can declare intention to race via Whatsapp.
In the past I have participated in races in which the boats towed out and laid marks, and the start was used by a simplified gate start. This worked well.

The whole idea is that a race can be set up the evening before, requires no race committee (but for dinghies, safety cover needs to be organised) AND complies with RRS.

My local club uses such a gate start for informal cruiser passage races for the return voyage of 'away' weekends. Class captain appoints the pathfinder, does the countdown and can shorten course if necessary, all by VHF. We have been doing this for at least 15 years

By
Created: 23-Sep-30 14:35
Gordon Davies
Nationality: Ireland
Certifications:
  • International Judge
0
 Would a notice displayed at the club saying 'All racing at this club will be governed by the rules as defined in The Racing Rules of Sailing' meet the requirement?  
See J1.2 (11). there needs to be an entry form saying 'I agree to be bound by the RRS and by all other rules that govern this event' or similar. This could be included in the club registration form for boats - saying 'I agree to be bound by the RRS and by all other rules that govern all club racing' 

The key point is to have standard race documents covering all club racing, that includes details of individual races to be communicated by WhatsApp (or similar).This allows the club to schedule a full programme of club racing, but allows flexibility for more impromptu racing. This is far better than having to produce race documents for every race or series.
Created: 23-Sep-30 14:45
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Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Gordon, J1.2(11) is interesting. The heading of J1.2 is a “shall include … that will apply” as opposed to J1.1’s simple “shall include”

Do you read J1.2 such that if the RRS’s apply that J1.2(11) shall be included?
Created: 23-Sep-30 15:06
Gordon Davies
Nationality: Ireland
Certifications:
  • International Judge
0
I struggle to envisage any circumstance in which I would be comfortable with boats entering an event without explicitly declaring in writing that they agree that the RRS govern the event. In our club the boat registration form is deemed to be the entry form for all club racing.
On the other hand we have had rogue boats participating in events without entering. In this case we have invoked RRS4.1 and judged them under RRS
Created: 23-Sep-30 15:44
P
Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
1
Ok.  Pretty easy to make an entry form on Google for entry instead of allowing just an email.

I built this in about 5 min: Entry Form 
Created: 23-Sep-30 16:01
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
Angelo,

I'd like to run the discussion below in this thread to avoid cluttering up your thread about the minimal documentation an OA might want.

John Allan
Said Created: Yesterday 14:18
Gordon Davies
Said Created: Today 11:11
There have been several incidents in Ireland in which racing has been organised without fulfilling the minimal requirements to ensure that RRS apply. 

What do you consider those 'minimal requirements' are?

Gordon Davies
Said Created: Yesterday 14:35
The minimal requirements are set out in App J. However, these rule set out the contents, not the format of race documents
 
The main items can be set out in a set of standard race documents applying to all club racing.

Gordon Davies
Said Created: Yesterday 15:44
I struggle to envisage any circumstance in which I would be comfortable with boats entering an event without explicitly declaring in writing that they agree that the RRS govern the event. In our club the boat registration form is deemed to be the entry form for all club racing.

What I was driving at with my question was what are the 'minimal requirements' for the RRS, in particular Part 2 When Boats Meet, to apply between boats.

What Gordon is talking about are, I think, the requirements essential to the prudent management of racing by a club or other organising authority.

I suggest that, following Juno v Endeavourthe minimal requirements for the RRS to apply between boats is nothing more than an agreement between them.  There is no fundamental requirement that this agreement should be in writing, unless and until there is some dispute about its existence or terms.

I suggest this actually happens whenever two boats go out for a training session.

If there is nothing more than an agreement between boats, there will, of course, be no Organising Authority, and some things in the RRS will not operate, for example:
  1. There will be no race committee to conduct and adjudicate starting and finishing.
  2. Boats will forego their rights to have protests heard by a protest committee (and may need to go to court to settle any dispute over damages),
  3. In the absence of written SI, there is likely to be confusion and misunderstanding about times and courses.

I suggest that the actual function of the written undertaking to agree to be bound by The Racing Rules of Sailing referred to in RRS J1.2(11) is to form the basis of the principle that common agreements between entrants in a race and the Organising Authority constitute an agreement between the boats themselves, even though there may be no direct communication between them, as discussed in Satanita's Case.
Created: 23-Oct-01 06:28
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Angelo Guarino
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
John .. I see what you are getting at .. and thanks for the case/incident references too. 

I think you’ve covered it. We are talking about a sliding scale of serious and organization. 

Two “racing boats” (meaning boats that being skippered by those who race, even if the boats are cruising or day-sail designs) go out to practice before a regatta or even say they went out for an overnight together and decide to ‘race home’ .. there is only the verbal agreement to abide to Part 2 and their honor (and possibly courts)  to straighten-out damages and injury if something goes wrong. 

What I was getting at was how simple could we make it (now leveraging Appx S in the other thread) for a “club”, that wants to have some ‘fun’ races to host something where it is clear that the RRS applies. Trying to make it so simple that there is little excuse not to do this minimum thing. 

As I showed now with Google Forms & Sheets and Gmail accounts freely available, it’s crazy simple to put together a web/mobile form for people to fill out. 

On the other hand, if the NOR/SI detailed the information required for entry, instructed boats to email that info to a specified address, and in the NOR had the “by entering i this event, you agree … “ statement .., maybe that’s something between a handshake and an acknowledgement on a form.  All this just to accumulate those things which are “easy” and make spontaneity possible. 
Created: 23-Oct-01 12:05
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John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
Thanks Angelo.

I certainly agree that without a NOR you don't have an Organising Authority, at least.

I'll get around to commenting in the other thread.

I think it's important to design the scheme and choose the electronic platform before worrying too much about NOR/SI.  RaceQs would probably have gone a long way to doing the job but sadly its no longer with us.

As to boats expressly saying in writing that they agree to be bound by the RRS, I think that's important, see the last paragraph of my previous post about common agreements between boats and the OA forming an agreement between the boats without any direct communication between them.  I don't think a 'by entering you agree' does the job there.  But if you're making Google Docs forms you can pretty easily put the standard words in.
Created: 23-Oct-01 12:45
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Greg Wilkins
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Club Judge
0
All,

thanks for your responses.    

Sorry to conflate the "beer can" race tag with the "non-RRS" races that I was actually concerned with.  I do keep my beer and racing separate, so sorry to those that do manage to have a beer under the RRS.

Your responses have confirmed my belief that a) we should treat these boats under the colregs no matter how they behave; b) there is no good way to round a mark under colregs so best to just keep well clear (not italics) of them.

thanks


Created: 23-Oct-02 07:33
Gordon Davies
Nationality: Ireland
Certifications:
  • International Judge
0
There are two separate scenarios:
- a one -off race which requires appropriate race documents and a specific entry procedure
- a club that is already running regular club races that wishes to occasionally run some additional races organised in a short time.

My remarks concern the the second scenario. I maintain that a club can write in to their existing race documents rules that provide for this.  All boats registered with the club can then take part. Once this is done all that is required is a WhatsApp group. My local club has had such provision, used frequently by our cruiser fleet, for many years.
Created: 23-Oct-02 16:25
P
John Allan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
Angelo Guarino
Said Created: Yesterday 12:05
What I was getting at was how simple could we make it (now leveraging Appx S in the other thread) for a “club”, that wants to have some ‘fun’ races to host something where it is clear that the RRS applies. Trying to make it so simple that there is little excuse not to do this minimum thing. 

Gordon Davies
Said Created: Today 16:25
There are two separate scenarios:
- a one -off race which requires appropriate race documents and a specific entry procedure
- a club that is already running regular club races that wishes to occasionally run some additional races organised in a short time.

My remarks concern the the second scenario. I maintain that a club can write in to their existing race documents rules that provide for this.  All boats registered with the club can then take part. Once this is done all that is required is a WhatsApp group. My local club has had such provision, used frequently by our cruiser fleet, for many years.

 John Allan
Said Created: Yesterday 12:45
I think it's important to design the scheme and choose the electronic platform before worrying too much about NOR/SI.  RaceQs would probably have gone a long way to doing the job but sadly its no longer with us.

Gordon Davies
Said Created: Sat 14:35
The main items can be set out in a set of standard race documents applying to all club racing.

The club registration form for boats can include a sentence for the boat owner to agree that all club racing will be governed by the RRS.

I agree that a once a year document with agreement to be bound by the RRS will work.

Rules for club racing can include a procedure in which a a Whatsapp group administrator can announce details of any race - date, time, classes, course etc

Boats can declare intention to race via Whatsapp.

In the past I have participated in races in which the boats towed out and laid marks, and the start was used by a simplified gate start. This worked well.

The whole idea is that a race can be set up the evening before, requires no race committee (but for dinghies, safety cover needs to be organised) AND complies with RRS.

Not wishing to cavill (too much)

Well, if you have SI, then you must have had a race committee to publish them.

The WhatsApp group admin is effectively the Sailing Administrator for the race, hence a member of the race committee.

Using a rabbit start, then I suggest that the skipper of the rabbit is the RO of the day.

Do I correctly presume that there is no notion of series pointscore?

How do you handle results?   Possibilities I can imagine are:
  • first boat to finish becomes the Finishing CV and is responsible to record results
  • everybody just scrums down when they come ashore and agree on the results.

I'm aware of self-managing competitions for example a squash ladder, so it doesn't seem too problematic.

Does the club regard provision of safety craft as essential?  How is this coordinated?

If you have to have safety craft, why shouldn't one of them be a RCV? 



Created: 23-Oct-02 22:37
Peter Clapp
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Race Officer In Training
  • Judge In Training
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