• Three CV's on a long starting line
  1 Comment
  John Standley Today 12:58
• Pondering Rule 3 - Are Race Officers and Organizing Authorities Over-Reaching?
  10 Comments
  Beau Vrolyk Today 10:33
• Rule 18,2 (e) Reasonable Doubt
  7 Comments
  John Quirk Sat 03:21
• When is an entry an entry?
  12 Comments
  Paul Kimmens 26-Jan-12 14:17
• Fix for RRS 60.4(a)(2) – Validity
  16 Comments
  Paul Zupan 26-Jan-11 20:12

• Three CV's on a long starting line

  

  
  

  

  John Porter Today 13:25
• Pondering Rule 3 - Are Race Officers and Organizing Authorities Over-Reaching?
  I don't think any additional wording is needed. As Nick said, "any reason" in 27.3 and 32.1(d) seems to cover it!
  
  Indeed there have been occasions I've waited in a fleet during wonderfully raceable conditions and it would appear the only reason the AP is still up is that 'it's lunchtime' and we're somewhere that it's completely normal that lunch is a 60-120 minute affair with a bottle of wine.
  
  That is still at the ROs discretion. As much as it is each boat's decision to start or continue to race, it is each owner's decision to consider the venue, prevailing wind conditions for the time of year, tides for the dates of the event, and even reputation of the club/nation/RO for having 7am starts, long lunchbreaks, cancelling racing at 2pm when a solid seabreeze is expected at 3.30pm and so on when they respond to the NOR & put their entry in... 
  
  An NOR doesn't need to get any more wordy to cover all these potential scenarios. Have a polite word with the RO after the fact if a race is cancelled, postponed or abandoned & it's still not clear to you what their reasons were?
  Fiona Collins Today 13:20
• Time Limit Expired (TLE)
  in my opinion, is not a suitable answer in such circumstance. However, TLE encourages boats to start and make every effort to complete, which is correct for small single fleets.
   https://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/2021AppendixLG28112020-[26802].pdf golf hit
  Blackwell Gerald Today 08:41
• Rule 18,2 (e) Reasonable Doubt
  Thanks again Tim and all, I have it all well in perspective now - and application subtleties etc as Michael points out...
  John Quirk Yesterday 01:48
• Mark-Room and Room to Pass an Obstruction who wins.
  > OR the converse: that thing is NOT blocking my path, it's NOT an
  > obstruction. A simple truth.
  
  I fear I disagree. An obstruction is an object, that just is. Whether or not its actively obstructing (or impeding would be an alternate word) is a separate issue in standard english. I don't much like the definition, and I think one measured in boat's beam could be better, but I am definitely in favour of the universal definition. Don't want boats having to agree whether its an obstruction or not. 
  
  Which leads us neatly on to the second half. Is the object obstructing, ie should RRS19 be active. We could say obstructing, or impeding, or influencing course. Or we could just use adjacency. Personally I like adjacency, because, again, there's less of a matter of opinion about it. So we could say adjacent to the obstruction, but 'at the obstruction' is simpler language and uses shorter words. A good thing.
  
  -----
  
  Ok so much for that, but lets go back to the scenario. Is there a problem with the rules that needs fixing? Clearly as we've spent some pages pin dancing and logic chopping there is an issue, but I very greatly doubt it comes up often enough, unlike the mirror situation where its a continuing obstruction, that we need a rewrite. A paragraph in the continuing obstruction case should be enough. So what? I don't much like rules turning on and off or overuling another. Complexity again. Both rules active works well enough provided a case provides a bit of clarity. 
  
  It all comes down, for what my opinion is worth, to a single issue. If two boats both have a claim for room to a gap only one will fit through what happens? We have two interpretations, and each has arguments in favour.
  
   One is to say that noone goes through, both boats must go outside both objects. The virtue of this one is that its a simple interpretation and it matches the situation when neither object is a mark. 
  
  The other is to take what I call Angelo's interpretation , that required room includes room to give the other boat room, and if there isn't space to do that RRS19 turns off and only 18 is left. The logic of this is somewhat convoluted which I don't really like, but logically perhaps purer. Also the end result is the one most would see as fairer. ROW gets to round the mark and sail her desired course.Give way must go round or waIt. This is also a better match to the continuing obstruction case.
  
  Personally I wouldn't have a problem with either. 
  
  That leaves us with the capsized boat scenarios. I sailed skiff types, its familiar territory. I can't get excited about this. In practice if someone p****s it in in front of you rules are out of the window, its just a question of trying to find a gap you can get through without hitting anything.
  Jim Champ Fri 04:19

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