Forum: Rules 2 and 69

Fair Play and Disputes: What Happens When Coaches Speak Disrespectfully?

Tiziano Menconi
Nationality: Italy
Can a coach be sanctioned for unsportsmanlike/misconduct, if while publicly pointing out errors in the published standings, they address race officials and organizers in a disrespectful tone and a raised voice?

Are there different standards if this is a youth sailing event or one comprising older competitors?
Created: Fri 17:40

Comments

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Niko Kotsatos
Nationality: United States
The question of whether a coach CAN be sanctioned is different from whether the coach SHOULD be sanctioned. I submit that we would need quite a bit more information to pass judgement on whether a coach SHOULD be sanctioned.

A coach is a defined "support person" and by RRS 4, accepts the rules. Additionally, 69.1(a) and (b) define that a "support person" must not commit misconduct. Again, it would be up to a PC to determine if the limits of misconduct had been met.

RRS 69.2i specifically mentions penalties for misconduct by support persons, and refers back to 62.3 and 62.4

62.3b allows a PC to "exclude the person from the event or venue or remove any privileges or benefits". There are other listed options as well, including making a request to the relevant National Authoritie(s). If I'm not mistaken, one could make a request to both the national authority of the event, and of the coach in question if they were not the same, as well as World Sailing.

I guess it's not totally clear to me who makes this last request... the PC, the aggrieved, or someone else?
Created: Fri 18:00
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Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
Niko ... I think Tiziano is focusing on the difference of "how" something is said (tone, volume, facial expressions, the public spectacle made while doing) and not the specific words said. 

For the sake of discussion, let's assume that a written transcript of simply what was said [would show what was said did] not cross the line. 
Created: Fri 18:06
Greg Dargavel
Angelo I think if we make an assumption that transcripts of words said are what we have to go on, then we are talking a very different situation than Tiziano's scenario of "in a disrespectful tone and a raised voice" (these would be facts found in an RRS69 investigation).  
Regarding the key question of can the coach be sanctioned? Since the coach falls under the support persons umbrella in RRS,  s/he can certainly be sanctioned. The appropriate sanction, and how the type of event, youth or not, would affect whether or not s/he was sanctioned, all come under the "it depends" clause as interpreted by the investigating/protest hearing committee.
Created: Fri 20:30
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Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
I only said that to separate the issue I thought he was going for ... separating the what from the manner ... that's all I was trying to convey. 
Created: Fri 21:33
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Tiziano, a good place to start would be reading the WS Guidance on Misconduct at  https://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/WorldSailingMisconductGuidanceJuly2021-[22804].pdf  and  Case 138

What you describe is certainly a breach of good manners and thus, according to RRS 69.1(b) is misconduct, for which a protest committee, in accordance with RRS 69.2(b) may call a hearing.

The protest committee would consider the things mentioned in the WS Misconduct Guidance and  Case 138, and, in particular, whether and to what degree the race officials were offended by the speaking.  The protest committee might also consider whether the speaking took place in front of other competitors, junior or otherwise, and any requirements about courtesy or bad language in the NOR or SI.

If you want to see a really good discussion about misconduct and bad manners take a look at this lengthy paper by Bryan Willis.
Bryan Willis Paper on Misconduct 2006.pdf 183 KB


Created: Fri 22:37
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Niko  There are other listed options as well, including making a request to the relevant National Authoritie(s).

Could you tell us where you find this in RRS 69?

Are you referring to the requirement for the protest committee to make a report to the MNA in accordance with RRS 69.2(j)?
Created: Fri 22:44
Dan Falcon
Nationality: United States
Bad adult behavior impacts youth sailors in a way that impacts the fairness of the event (and future events if kids learn that if they tangle with other coaches they fly off the handle).

Youth baseball leagues in my part of the US have elaborate ways to drive home the codes of conduct for adults. In part they do this because redress is not easy in that sport, though umpires are empowered to kick people out of the stands it is not always practical.

Often a simple speech at a skippers meeting or before an awards announcement can go a long way. One doesn’t need to name names or make specific promises of future action, but one can make the point that additional actions may lead to enhanced responses.

If it is a coach for a school or yacht club, one form of action is a letter to the coaches organization, stating that their behavior did break or may have approached breaking rule 69 and requesting that they instruct the coach to observe the rules or further action may be taken.

Other ideas?
Created: Sat 02:23
Greg Dargavel
Reply to: 19218 - Dan Falcon
Here in the land of hockey parents we have similar policies/procedures as you do in baseball. I agree with the importance of taking action to reduce the influence of adult bad behaviour on young competitors.

I have some concerns though about the process suggested in your final paragraph. Who would send this letter? It seems to me that until there is an investigation/hearing under RRS 69 the PC/hearing committee has no right to do so. If a club board/executive were to send it, they certainly could say they are concerned that a certain behaviour may approach infringing RRS 69 but without an investigation/hearing they could not say it did break RRS.

Further thoughts?
Created: Sat 14:03
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Dan, Greg,   While I can understand how aggressive 'barracking' from the bleachers at a baseball or hockey game may distract players and affect the fairness of the compeition, I think this is generally unlikely in a sailing race, although I can understand that deliberate yelling from a spectator boat to a competitor other than the spectator's 'own' might be the very sort of thing that proceedings against support persons are intended to address.

I think some of what Dan is talking about is proactive 'tone at the top' communication, which I am very much in favor of, and believe is far more effective than recriminations after the event.

A protest committee has no business writing letters to anybody, except the MNA.  You either conduct a hearing under RRS 69 or you don't.  But a concerned citizen who just happens to be the chair of a protest committee can write to anybody he or she chooses.  But it would probably be better coming form the OA.  Letters to the head of a school or college can be very effective, particularly when the school or college has signed up to a general sporting code of behaviour.
Created: Sat 14:20
Greg Dargavel
Reply to: 19221 - John Allan
Totally agree with both John and Dan that proactive is the way to go at competitors' and coaches' meetings. I also agree that spectators/support persons verbal attacks on competitors are less likely in sailing. ( I always love trying to work with others sports at multisport games to explain how different our "field of play" is.) 

Going back to the original question though, it is the disrespectful treatment of officials that is of concern. I see much, much less of it in sailing than in so many other sports. Let's do all we can (within RRS) to keep it that way.
Created: Sat 14:53
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