Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing
SI change to Rule 31
Mike Forbes
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
- National Judge
0
If the SI's change R31 to allow a boat to touch a mark of the course (other than a start/finish mark), does that allow an outside boat to force an inside boat (with mark room) into the mark so slowing it down or possibly fouling the mooring line of the mark ?
The inside boat would not break a rule, but would the outside boat break R2?
Mark Room (def) is Room to leave the mark on the correct side and round the mark as necessary to sail the course, both of which are complied with by the inside boat.
The inside boat would not break a rule, but would the outside boat break R2?
Mark Room (def) is Room to leave the mark on the correct side and round the mark as necessary to sail the course, both of which are complied with by the inside boat.
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PS: Note the Q&A pulls its punch by using “seamanlike” and not “sportsmanlike”.
At a leeward gate mark to be left to port, OL is overlapped on the outside of IW at the
zone. As the boats round the mark, OL gives IW room such that IW must either touch
the mark or make contact with OL. IW avoids OL but touches the mark. IW protests.
Question 1
Which rule, if any, has been broken?
Answer 1
At the zone, IW is a keep clear boat (rule 11) entitled to mark-room under rule 18.2(b).
Mark-room entitles IW to be given the space needed in the existing conditions to round
the mark while manoeuvring promptly in a seamanlike way. It is not seamanlike to touch
a mark.
OL did not give IW room to round the mark in a seamanlike way. OL broke rule 18.2(b).
So just because you are allowed to touch a mark, it does not allow another boat to force you into the mark.
John
A boat may be exonerated, but "exonerated" is not the same as "did not break the rule".
And re the original post I'd say that turning off rule 31 (why, again?) doesn't change 18 any more than rule 21 exoneration does. Failing to give mark room per the definition breaks 18 unless the SI changes that too.
Tim, I’m not following you there. Can you put what you are saying another way?
BTW, I agree with your other point. Changing 31 such that touching a mark does not break a rule is completely separate from 18 obligating a boat to give room. 18’s room is still the same geometry with RRS 31 modified or in the original, and not providing it to a room-entitled-boat still breaks a rule.
John
On second thought I guess if you include match racing rules that may be true, but not in fleet racing. I believe in fleet racing a boat may be exonerated for breaking 31 but she still breaks it if she touches the mark.
If the SI's allow touching a mark, then surely def Mark Room is complied with "room to round the mark as necessary.....".
R18 has NOT been broken if the SI's change R31 to read that a boat shall not touch a Start of Finish mark, omitting to mention any other mark. Touching a mark is then allowed by default of not mentioning it in the amended R31.
Surely R18 has NOT been broken, so Exhoneration is not an issue.
I think this is a really bad change to Rules via the SI's, but I have been asked to comment by an RO on a proposed change in a regatta SI, requested by the competitors.
Match Racing, Kiteboarding, Windsurfing .. all those appendices change RRS 31 to allow touching a mark one way or another.
I agree with your analysis of how you would apply it. The 18 room doesn't change at all because of a lack of 31. A fact found that a boat was compelled to touch a mark due to another boat not giving her the room she was entitled to, is still evidence that 18 was broken. It seems nothing else changes except the 31 penalty.
Mike, still curious what the rationale is for this change? It doesn't seem like it would improve safety or competition. Why do the competitors want it?
Perhaps if they want something it might be better to adopt the match racing version of 31 which as I read it allows contact by equipment or sails but not hull or crew.
I have no idea why the competitors want this change. I will not be at the Regatta, but the RO has asked me to comment on the competitors request.
I had not heard of this particular change to R31, but Googling around, I have found a number of Regatta SI's that include the proposed change.
I think it goes something like this...
The Q&A 2018-17 I posted earlier states it very clearly. “It is not seamanlike to compel a boat to touch a mark even if she does not break a rule by doing so. ”
From CAN 35 “It is not seamanlike to be forced to contact objects such as, in this case, a mark or its ground tackle”
This seamanlike application is not limited to 18 applications. The Call D1 involves “mark L, an inflatable buoy that is not a mark on this leg,”, therefore 18 can not apply. Even so, in Call D1 the room to not-touch the mark is granted by 16.1.
Not all changes are required by J 1.2 to be in NOR.
For sailors who feel that R31 has a safety, seamanship, or sportsmanship importance, knowing in advance that a regatta will delete it is "important information they will need before the SI become available" (J1.2) and before registering and traveling.
When there is a conflict between NOR and SI, we are obliged to arrive at a fair conclusion.
The choices here are either to grant redress and require everyone to sail by WS's racing rules, as advertised in the NOR,
or to require a subset who object to the change, after committing resources to attend, suddenly to go against the WS rules.
I cannot see that requiring rules compliance is unfair to anyone.
Best avenue is simply to include it in the NOR.
For instance I was just involved in helping craft NOR for a race that changed CRs and SERs. Those items had a drastic impact on who was eligible to race and what safety equipment would be required onboard, which in many cases represented new investments in equipment as well as some minor boat modification. That’s the sort of change that can’t just show-up 3 days before that race in the SI’s.
I think we have already established in our discussion that this 31 change does not change the room one boat owes another in mark roundings and therefore does not ‘change the game’. To me, this 31 change is akin to replacing 2-turn with 1.
You didn’t answer my Q1-2 above (I haven’t gone thru the RO training). Is there a list of rules in your training materials that you can share?
Here is a comment from Seattle RS Aero fleet, which is currently "voting" what the rule is to be locally:
.
"Assuming it is going to be the rule for the worlds and other major regattas, [deleting R31] would help our members who are making the effort to attend those events, to be more competitive. It was in the NOR for the NA’s, but I could not find it in the NOR for Melbourne. Not that I am going, but if I was, and touching marks was going to be allowed, I would want to know about it well in advance and begin to prepare with that in mind. The question is not whether it is a good idea or not, since the decision may have already been made, but how best to deal with it."
FINALLY! I found a sailing-skill where my natural "abilities" put me at an advantage! ;-)