Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

Rule 32 Abandoning after the Start

Mike Forbes
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
  • National Judge
32.1...... "after the starting signal the RC may shorten the course....... 32.1(d)..for any other reason directly affecting the.... FAIRNESS of the competition. 

I had always considered a lack of wind making the racing a "lottery" to be unfair, but is it?   It is the same for all competitors.

What is UNFAIR in the context of 32.1(d) ??
Created: 19-Jun-13 10:29

Comments

P
Angelo Guarino
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Mike et’al, we also had a similar discussion/topic in this previous thread (link below). - Ang

https://www.racingrulesofsailing.org/posts/194-time-limit-for-abandoning-a-race-and-variable-conditions-in-considering-fairness-of-a-race
Created: 19-Jun-13 13:14
Mike Forbes
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
  • National Judge
0
thank you.    Apologies, I posted in the wrong Forum, it should have been in the RRS forum.  Cant see how to move it other than delete and rewrite?
Created: 19-Jun-13 13:35
P
Angelo Guarino
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Just leave it. The email regarding a new thread goes out either way and those interested can follow. Maybe Paul can flip-a-bit here and there and move it. - Ang
Created: 19-Jun-13 13:44
David Lees
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • National Umpire
0
Rule 32.1 (b) deals with lack of wind and allows abandonment or shortening if lack of wind makes it unlikely that any boat will finish within the time limit.  I've always thought that that prevents race officers abandoning for lack of wind under the safety or fairness provision in (d) unless there is something else as well, for instance a strong tide making things dangerous.  On the other hand, a race officer can decide that the wind isn'g going to come back and abandon under (b) and I don't think he can be criticised when a super breeze comes up ten minutes after he abandons.
Created: 19-Jun-13 17:24
P
Michael Butterfield
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • International Umpire
  • International Race Officer
0
we had a recent appeal in the UK where a RC abandoned when 10 boats had finished but lots of boats got stuck in a tide (because of the light wind) and were bashing each other at a mark. It was a bout 5 mins off the cut off time. The Appeal Committee reinstated the race saying it should not have been abandoned.
Created: 19-Jun-13 17:29
Mike Forbes
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
  • National Judge
0
........ and it always fills in from the back of the fleet !!!!!   Is that unfair 32.1(d)? or just back luck?
Created: 19-Jun-13 17:31
P
Paul Zupan
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • National Judge
0
I feel the most angst when sailing downwind and the wind fills bringing the trailing boats down faster - I really hate that situation.  But I’m happy to take the gains up front when the wind fills going upwind.  I’m sure it’s unfair, but nobody said the wind has to treat everyone fairly.  I think we reserve that question for how the RC runs the race.

Having said that, do you think a race should be abandoned where there is a big wind shift such that the fleet turns inside out? (eg: the boats basically round the windward mark in reverse order of how the rounded the previous leeward mark)
Created: 19-Jun-13 17:55
P
Michael Butterfield
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • International Umpire
  • International Race Officer
0
Yes I do.
Created: 19-Jun-13 17:59
P
Paul Zupan
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • National Judge
0
Why?
Created: 19-Jun-13 18:07
P
Michael Butterfield
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • International Umpire
  • International Race Officer
0
World Sailing Guidelines
15. Adjusting The Course To A New Wind Speed Or Direction 
15.1 Change in wind direction: 
(a) With a persistent wind shift of 10° or less the course will not be changed unless necessary to adjust for current or to provide a square run. 
(b) Between 10° and 15° consideration will be given to adjusting the course to the new wind provided that the race management team is confident that the shift is likely to persist. 
(c) With a persistent wind shift of more than 15°, the race management team will attempt to change the course to the new wind.  
(d) With a persistent wind shift of more than 45°, the race management team will consider its influence on the race.  Under these circumstances, the race management team may either change the course or abandon the race. 
(e) Frequent and violent oscillations: Under these circumstances the race management team may not be able to adjust the course sufficiently or quickly enough to maintain a race of the required standard. In this case the race may be abandoned. 
(f) Changes in current or a difference in the angle of the current relative to the wind may justify variations from these guidelines. 

We are in D and E territory, the race standard is affected and tainted with unfairness. 
Created: 19-Jun-13 18:17
P
Angelo Guarino
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Michael, I notice in (e) that it references "...maintain[ing] a race of the required standard".  Could that be one reason that some views on this issue are so divergent?

Certainly, if the NOR or maybe OD guidelines for a championship series dictate that the races MUST be of a certain character, then wind changes/oscillations that take the races out of the "required standard"  are clearer.

On the other hand, when no race characteristics in terms of a "required standard" are defined in the NOR/SI/OD docs, but rather simply course selections or maybe predefined gov't marks are listed and it is left up to the RC that day to select a course, then maybe these large wind changes are more tolerable as there is no predefined standard to which to compare it to?

Ang
Created: 19-Jun-13 19:43
P
Paul Zupan
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • National Judge
0
The point I'm trying to make is that it feels like we're trying to create some rules around an undefined issue.  We clearly expect that the wind will not treat competitors fairly and we're okay with that.  We can't control who gets a puff or shift of wind and who doesn't. In fact, we consider it a skill to be able to see it and predict where it might happen.  But I think the WS Guidelines are trying to identify a situation where the wind changes and the RC can't adjust to it in order to maintain a "required standard". Perhaps if we had a better definition of the required standard, we could better understand when abandoning a race should be the solution.  As Angelo points out, some classes of boats have defined metrics to make it easier.
Created: 19-Jun-13 20:02
Phil Mostyn
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • National Umpire
0
What is the current thinking on a RC being able to abandon a race on 32.1(d) grounds after it has been completed?
Created: 19-Jun-14 04:00
P
Michael Butterfield
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • International Umpire
  • International Race Officer
0
Would have to be for something rARE AND FOR SOMETHING PROBABLY NOT SEE BY THE rc during the race.
Created: 19-Jun-14 10:18
P
Angelo Guarino
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Phil, FWIW outside the US, US 100 touches a bit on that question.
https://www.racingrulesofsailing.org/cases/997?page=26



Created: 19-Jun-14 12:48
[You must be signed in to add a comment]
Cookies help us deliver our services. By using our services, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn more