Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

Adding certain standard and discretionary penalties to the boat's net score

Peter van Muyden
Nationality: Canada
Certifications:
  • International Race Officer
During the World Sailing RM meetings there was some discussion regarding adding certain standard and discretionary penalties to the boat's net score.  There was no submission or decision made.

I'm talking about penalties not related to a particular race such as:
  • Failing to check in / out
  • Leaving the boat park before the display of the Delta flag
  • Being towed when not allowed
  • Failing to notify the Race Office when staying ashore 
  • etc

Currently, most of the time the penalty is applied to a race near the incident.   However, the actual result of the penalty changes or disappears if the boat discards the race or the penalty causes the score to be worse than the score for DNF.  I don't think that this is fair

Adding the penalty to the boat's net score makes the penalty the same in all cases.  Here is the link to the Sail Canada Youth Nationals results where we applied the penalty score to the boat's net score:  http://www.jpvm.org/results/2018/Youths/results.html  

 I'm interested to hear what you think of this  
Created: 19-May-03 17:30

Comments

Michael Butterfield
Nationality: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • International Umpire
  • International Race Officer
0
seems sensible sailwave scoring program allows for this
Created: 19-Jun-12 07:48
Bob Stevens
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
0
May be a hassle to enforce: "We checked in!".   Unless taped, how to say no?  Not checked in, not racing?  But, the penalties do seem reasonable to be able to keep order, and have all competitors doing the same to get to the course.
Created: 19-Jun-12 12:35
Angelo Guarino
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
  • Fleet Measurer
2
Peter, as presented, one of the premises of the need to do this is the sense that it’s not “fair” to allow this penalty to be dropped or that the penalty might be diminished due to the DNF threshold.

On the DNF issue, this could be dealt with by applying the penalty to the first race completed in which the DNF threshold isn’t a factor. If there is never such a race, then it’s not going to have much of a punitive effect anyway on that particular competitor.

On the fairness issue regarding drop-race scoring, I don’t see that as any more or less fair than dropping a DSQ after an incident on the water.  If we don’t have a problem with a DSQ being dropped, why should we have a problem with a not-checked-in penalty being dropped?  All penalties, in the end, are to enforce good conduct both on and off the water.

In effect, what is being proposed will create a new class of DNE penalties, where currently DNE penalties are reserved for the most egregious conduct.   

I think this is a bit too excessive and that any class of DNE penalty should be reserved for unsportsmanlike behavior and misconduct. - Ang
Created: 19-Jun-12 13:17
Angelo Guarino
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
  • Fleet Measurer
0
PS ..

I was wondering how one might word the DP in the way I suggest above to avoid the DNF threshold (it's actually a little bit of a challenge). 

Borrowing from some of the current entries in 'Decision Wording' on this site, how about something like this? (feel free to make it better)

The penalty imposed shall be [## %] of the score for DNF, rounded to the nearest tenth of a point (0.05 to be rounded upward), applied to her finishing position for a race she starts. The penalty shall be applied to the first race [in the series] in which the application of the penalty results in a score equal to or less than DNF. If no race satisfies this condition, the penalty shall be applied to the [first qualifying race] [the race closest in time to the incident], and the result not to exceed a score of DNF. The scores of other boats shall not be changed as a result of this penalty.

Version 2 without redlines .. 

The penalty imposed shall be [## %] of the score for DNF, rounded to the nearest tenth of a point (0.05 to be rounded upward). The penalty shall be applied to the first race [in the series] for which the application of the penalty results in a score equal to or less than DNF. If no race satisfies this condition, the penalty shall be applied to the [first race][race closest in time to the incident][race with the lowest score], the resulting score not to exceed that of DNF. The scores of other boats shall not be changed as a result of this penalty.
Created: 19-Jun-12 17:51
Michael Butterfield
Nationality: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • International Umpire
  • International Race Officer
0
I still think it is better to add to the Net score so the penalty always applies. This way it is independent of discards so all parties can calculate where they are.
Created: 19-Jun-13 14:46
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