Forum: Rule 18 and Room at the Mark

Sail the Course?

Robert Scott
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
Facts:  Series race, PHRF.  Course = W6 (windward/leeward, 5 mark roundings and finish downwind).  Winds 10-12, no waves. The first two boats (Melges 24s), after rounding the 5th mark and turning downwind become confused and instead of finishing they round the leeward mark and continue to the windward mark and then finish.  In essence completing a W8.  The third boat round the fifth mark finishes the W6 as the course was designed.
 
Question:  How should the two Melges 24s be scored.  Did they simply sail extra length and their finish time should be when they crossed the finish line.  Or, did they fail to sail the course and are they required to unwind the extra two roundings or take the appropriate penalty?
Created: 21-Jun-03 00:40

Comments

Philip Hubbell
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Judge In Training
1
Three laps? Come on, PRO! Give our grey cells a break.
Too bad. Sailed extra distance. No rule against that. 
Score as finished.
Created: 21-Jun-03 01:00
Clark Chapin
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Club Race Officer
2
I would say that they finished when they crossed the finishing line. There is no rule against sailing extra distance.
They met the definition of sailing the course.
Created: 21-Jun-03 01:01
P
John D. Farris
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Umpire In Training
  • Club Judge
0
The Viper 640 and multi-hull classes at my Club often continue to sail if there is wind and daylight on our Wednesday night series. The boat that brings in the start/finishing mark gets a beverage(s) of choice on the race committee.
Created: 21-Jun-03 01:17
Sen Yamaoka
Nationality: Japan
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • National Umpire
  • National Race Officer
1
When the first two boats (Melges 24s) crossed the finishing line after sailing 6 legs, they did not still finish. Because they continued to sail the courses under the definition Finish (c).

When the two boats crossed the finishing line after sailing 8 legs and then sailed home, they finished correctly.  The race committee shall score two boats based on their second crossing of the finishing line.
Their scores might be significantly worse, but it  is due to their own voluntary actions.
(Ref: US Sailing Appeals Book: Question 86)  


Created: 21-Jun-03 04:46
Ben Williams
Nationality: Australia
0
I thought you have to cross the line from the course side.  Is that not the case?
Created: 21-Jun-03 05:42
Robert Scott
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
0
To clarify, the two boats only "finished" once, after the seventh rounding.  Sen Yamaoka, thank you for your Appeals citation.
Created: 21-Jun-03 13:59
P
Christopher Walmsley
Nationality: Canada
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
I think it's important to know if the "finish line" and it's marks are separate from the "leeward mark" or equivalently when they did the final downwind rounding, did the also cross the finish line from the course side.   

There is a funny "chicken and egg" problem with the definitions of Finish and Sail the Course.  You haven't Finished if you continue to Sail to Course, but you don't continue to Sail the Course once you've Finished.  What to do???

Assuming they actually crossed the finish line at their last rounding I would say that they have Finished.  Their "string" will have satisfied the course requirements in Sailing the Course as the other legs and rounding they did are not part of the course.  A RC, at the instance their bow crossed the line, would mark them as finished, and who would know what or why they were taking their subsequent actions.
Created: 21-Jun-03 15:55
Robert Scott
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
0
Chrostopher Walmsley - The finish line was separate from the leeward mark.  I've copied a (not to scale) drawing below.  They did not cross the finish line after rounding five marks (as a W6 would require) but went on to round a sixth (leeward) and seventh (windward) mark and then finished between the RC and pin.

image.png 144 KB
Created: 21-Jun-03 21:25
P
Angelo Guarino
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Robert ... the language is quite clear I think.   They sailed the race (RRS 28) and in doing so included a valid start and finish and they sailed the course.

A3. STARTING TIMES AND FINISHING PLACES
The time of a boat’s starting signal shall be her starting time, and the order in which boats finish a race shall determine their finishing places. [...]

Finish
A boat finishes when, after starting, any part of her hull crosses the finishing line from the course side. [...]

28. SAILING THE RACE
28.1.
   
A boat shall start, sailing the course and then finish. While doing so, she may leave on either side a mark that does not begin, bound or end the leg she is sailing.

Sail the Course
A boat sails the course provided that a string representing her track from the time she begins to approach the starting line from its prestart side to start until she finishes, when drawn taut,
  1. passes each mark of the course for the race on the required side and in the correct order,
  2. touches each mark designated in the sailing instructions to be a rounding mark, and
  3. passes between the marks of a gate from the direction of the course from the previous mark.





Created: 21-Jun-03 22:52
P
Christopher Walmsley
Nationality: Canada
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
I agree with Angelo, that they still sailed the course.  The fact that their "string" went around some unnecessary marks shouldn't matter if the passed the necessary marks in the correct order.
Created: 21-Jun-04 01:53
[You must be signed in to add a comment]
Cookies help us deliver our services. By using our services, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn more