Forum: Race Officers

Race Committee Member and Judge

J. Conal Lancaster
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Club Judge
  • Race Officer In Training
I am a J.I.T. as well as a prospective Club Race Officer. There is no "In-Training" category for Race Officers. I have the opportunity to be on both the Race Committee and the Protest Committee for an up-coming regatta (if it happens). I am also new to this forum so if this is the wrong place to just ask a question I understand. Is there any reason to not participate as both? There will be no on-the-water judging. Thank you.
Created: 20-Mar-18 11:50

Comments

P
Angelo Guarino
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
1
J, it’s a great idea to be both a Cert RO and Judge. As a matter of fact, the requirements for US Sailing Regional Judge requires participation in race management.

US Sailing Judges Program

That said, you usually do not want to be on both as the RC may be involved in a protest or R4R.  So, if you are short handed, you could be on the panel but you should have a backup to replace you in the event a hearing involves the RC. 
Created: 20-Mar-18 11:55
Ant Davey
Nationality: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • International Judge
  • Umpire In Training
1
I can't find the piece I'm looking for in the rule book, so it may be in the IJ manual, that I don't have time to delve into right now...  But I recall seeing something about it not being advisable to be a member of both at any event.  With smaller club and local events it shouldn't be an issue.  But you may have to declare a potential conflict of interest if there are claims for redress made against the race committee's actions or omissions.
Created: 20-Mar-18 12:13
Matt Bounds
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • National Race Officer
0
I'll echo what Ang said - depending on the level of the event (you would never see this at a world, continental or national championship), it's OK, but not preferable, as long as the RC is not the protestor or if a request for redress involves the RC.
Created: 20-Mar-18 12:16
Robert Austin-LaFrance
Nationality: United States of America
0
I agree with all above.  However, if this is a Club race and the protest centers around a violation of a Rule in Part 2, you may be able to hear it without a perceived conflict of interest. Any RC-initiated protest or a R4R involving an error by the RC and you will have to recuse yourself.  
Created: 20-Mar-18 12:30
David Brunskill
Nationality: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Certifications:
  • National Judge
0
I'm with Angelo on this.  Get the training, but should you be in a protest hearing be exceptionally careful to ensure that there is no conflict of interest between the role of race team member and that of the protest committee.  Parties may have different perceptions to those of the protest committee.  Assuming that you consider that there is no conflict, when parties are asked whether they have any objections to the composition of the protest committee make a point of stating that the question of conflict of interest has been considered but that if there is any concern from any party you will withdraw.  

I have been in the position that a competitors perception was that I had a conflict of interest when I was chairman of the protest committee but helped on a safety issue in the Philippines Hobie Challenge.   (I was an IJ at the time but have subsequently retired for health reasons).    It was a very difficult and contentious redresss request from a very aggressive competitor.

I withdrew from the protest committee although the committee members did ask for some rules clarifications during the hearing. The remaining members, none of whom were judges,  went through the protest process and took the decisions in my absence.     The competitor didn't like it but had to accept the protest committee decision and didn't have grounds to go to appeal.  
Created: 20-Mar-18 12:31
Gordon Davies
Nationality: Ireland
Certifications:
  • International Judge
0
I would suggest that there is no problem at a club regatta with the following caveats:
- you only have a relatively minor role on the race committee. Not judging the start or finish. I have often helped out in this way and volunteered to do the time keeping
- declare a conflict of interest for any request for redress concerning an improper action or omission of the race committee
- accept with good grace any objection by a party to the hearing and stand down

In many cases if you declare a conflict of interest the parties will accept that you continue on the panel. If they agree they cannot object later.

Gordon
Created: 20-Mar-18 12:48
J. Conal Lancaster
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Club Judge
  • Race Officer In Training
0
Thank you, everyone for your comments. My training instructors recommended this site and it has been a valuable tool in my development toward certification. I am sure my PRO and Chief Judge would have given me specific direction. I was curious beforehand. I look forward to certification and joining your ranks. You most certainly will be hearing more questions in the future.
Created: 20-Mar-18 14:40
P
Angelo Guarino
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Do you go by "J" or "Conal"? - Ang
Created: 20-Mar-18 14:49
Rob Markwick
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Club Judge
  • Club Race Officer
0
I have done this (2019 J24 Nationals). Is it doable? Yes, provided the PRO and Chief Judge are on board. It is key to make sure both understand your multiple roles, and that you establish when the transition between roles occurs (for me it was 'head to the PC room as soon as the RC boat has securely docked, get RC debrief info later').
 I dont recommend doing so unless you have a good reason for wanting to do both (In my case, this was wanting to learn from multiple IROs on the Race Committee while also needing hearings for Club Judge certification). Race Committee tends to start early in the morning, while Protests can run late into the evening, so you may be subjected to very long days (unless your role on RC is only as scorer).
As mentioned by others, conflict of interest can be an issue, though I have found most competitors won't care for a boat v boat protest. Plan on sitting out for most requests for redress (at least those 'against' race committee).
In summary, communication between all involved parties is key here, and know what you are getting into.

Created: 20-Mar-18 15:27
P
Paul Zupan
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • National Umpire
  • International Judge
  • National Judge
0
I have added the category of Race Officer In Training to the list of certifications...
Created: 20-Mar-18 15:46
Michael Lipari
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Club Judge
  • Club Race Officer
0
Like everyone else has said.  This is doable, but need to be very cognizant of conflicts of interest so any Redress because of something the RC did, anything that you could be called as a witness or where the Race Committee is protesting a competitor.   

With that said, if you have an opportunity to judge take it.  The hardest part of moving from Judge in training to judge at any level is getting your Protests in within the time frame.  At local club events there are just not that many protest that actually make it to the room.  So do it when the opportunity presents itself.
Created: 20-Mar-18 16:07
Malcolm McKeag
Nationality: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
  • National Race Officer
1
I used to be both an IJ and  IU, then an NRO and NJ and now just an RRO and NGH (National General Hasbeen). I now regularly run (as Race Officer) the racing for one of our regular club classes, am PRO for the overall points series (of which there are several) for that class and am still asked to sit on and occasionally chair club-level protest committees.  Given that from the competitors' point-of-view many if not most protests end up declaring one party to have been in the right and one party to have been in the wrong I make it a point never to sit on, never mind chair, a protest involving 'my own' class.  It's not about conflict of interest. It is about remaining, and being seen to remain, utterly impartial; even-handed in my dealings across the fleet - not favouring one boat/skipper/crew over another.  I would strongly advise anyone closely involved with running the racing in their club to stay well away from any dispute between 'their' competitors - leave it to those who are less or not at all involved. As has been already noted - the situation would (or at least should) not be tolerated at national level and above - for very good reason. 
Created: 20-Mar-18 16:16
Matt Bounds
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • National Race Officer
3
Paul, I think you'll need to add the category of NGH to the list of certifications now. :-)

Created: 20-Mar-18 16:36
J. Conal Lancaster
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Club Judge
  • Race Officer In Training
0
Nice new title! Thanks. Back to Rob. That is why I am trying to take on so much so soon. I have many years of competition behind me and I still want to participate. Our Yachting Association desperately needs more Officers and Judges and is having difficulty filling positions for some regattas. I need more exposure to fulfill my requirements so the easiest way is to perform double duty. I just wanted to be sure there were no rules prohibiting it. I am sure my PRO's and Chief Judges will insure correctness.
For Ang: I actually prefer "Con" but Conal will do. 
Thanks everyone for taking the time to discuss a topic that seems to be solved with common sense without the need for more rules. I am sure I will have a lot of questions in the future.  
Created: 20-Mar-18 18:37
[You must be signed in to add a comment]
Cookies help us deliver our services. By using our services, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn more