Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing
Close Starboard-Port upwind with 20m Bargers RRS 10 -15-14
In this scenario tow 20 meter classic bargers are in 5Bft on SB and Port tack.
Orange on SB-tack has RoW at 1 & 2
Yellow is bearing away and passing Orange at higer speed astearn at 3
Orange decides to tack towards port tack, as Yellow tacks to starboard
Orange has her sails lightly earlier full on upwind course than Yellow
Nevertheless there is room between the boats and Yellow also completes her tack and is full on upwind course at 5
Orange is a bit slow on reacting, hesitates and at 6 tacks away
Yellow luffs up to avoid collision, eventually tacks and decides to protest against Orange for not giving RoW on RRS 10.
Orange claims in the hearing that Yellow did not give her room to avoid collision based on RRS 15.
Yellow's counter is that Orange waited too long (2-3 secs) and so created her claim for a RRS 15 breach.
No collission has occurred! Yellow avoided Orange, tacked away to port. Orange stayed on starboard tack.
What can be the outcome of this hearing - all happened in 2019 - screenshots from Live recording available when in doubt.
Created: Yesterday 16:08
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Once Orange is close hauled on starboard, then, 11 applies and subject to 15 - Yellow needs to Keep Clear of Orange which it appears she did.
So...did Yellow luff up prior to Orange getting to closehauled?
It is only if a prompt response would not have been sufficient would we look to the starboard boat.
This seems like one of those situations where the rules are relatively clear but the facts will be incredibly hard to pin down without perfect 3D video coverage. In these situations, some PC's will declare a foul, but many will say no foul, as Yellow's avoidance was part of her obligations under RRS15. I think it's possible to chuck Y as well if a PC determines that O had to "crash tack" to avoid collision.
At P5 Y is RoW and in 1 boat length O needs to have already started tacking or ducking O which she delayed slightly so didn’t do it promptly.
So, you have to determine when did Y start luffing up? If before O was closehauled then DSQ O.
If O was closehauled, then she is RoW subject to 15 and it appears she gave Y room to keep clear since yellow was able to tack out of the way so no rule broken. If you determine that 15 applied because O was closehauled at the moment Y tacked then you might consider DSQ O
I don't agree with the wording "at P5 is" nor "needs to have already started" given that Yellow has just gotten ROW at P5, and now owes room to keep clear via RRS15. How can a boat need to have already started ducking, given she was ROW from P4.8 to P5? Neither of your posts address RRS15, which may stem from ignoring ROW at P4.8.
I think your last sentence you switched O and Y.
As to P4.8 - are you saying O is close-hauled at P4.8 and Y is still tacking until P5 when she now has ROW subject to 15? If so, Y is keep clear boat by 13 until she completes her tack onto starboard at P5.
To get at a 15 decision from P5 to P6 - we'd need to know boat speeds to understand how much time O had to make her decision.
FYI, I base my view of 4.8 off of OP's 5th line:
"Orange has her sails lightly earlier full on upwind course than yellow"
That makes it really hard. I believe it's still true that Orange reaches close-hauled before Yellow, as the diagram and wording seem to line up here, but it's not totally clear.
Don't you have your orange and yellow flipped?
We don't know the wind speed and boat speed.
To me the diagram and description do not match, especially:
Orange is a bit slow on reacting, hesitates and at 6 tacks away
and Yellow's counter is that Orange waited too long (2-3 secs)
We know they are 20 meter boats
The diagram shows Yellow completed her tack at 5 and was just over 1 BL from Orange.
Orange was beyond head to wind within 1/3 BL of when Yellow completing her tack.
That seems quick to me on a 20 meter Classic and no delay in moving people into a tack.
With speed known we could calculate times better. At 5 knots, distance is 2.6 meters.
Yellow is DSQ for violating rule 15.
Again to me the description and diagram are not fully consistent. I know it is hard to always do that.
Would the Case 50 wording of "genuine and reasonable apprehension of collision" come into PC deliberations?
incidentally Google's damned irritating AI summary just gave me this when I double checked bottom speed of F5
"The Beaufort scale Force 5 describes a "Fresh Breeze," with wind speeds of 19–24 mph (2938 km/h or
Yes Case 50 applies.
The rules assume an competent, but not expert sailor. If a new sailor on Starboard alters course way to early, it will be given light weight.
I now see a clipped video that I had not seen with my first comment. It does appear that the boats were a bit farther apart than I thought, although one must always be aware of perspective. Port held near head to wind for a bit.
And we see how the umpires ruled on the situation.
In Sailing Instructions in 2019 there was an addendum regarding the Umpiring stating that when a boat is protesting the Umpire has the obligation to file a protest after the race against the boat he judges as breaking the rules i.e. the boat that is at fault. This hearing was conducted and the final ruling was that Yellow did not give Orange room to stay clear RRS15. Yellow got a DSQ. The defense of Yellow during the protest was that there was enough room for Orange to stay clear, but either she forced a close situation near collision between the boats by intentionally keeping her ruther straight instead of a normal turn. Or was probably hoping they could pass in front of Yellow on port tack. There was no collision - both boats continued and Yellow raised a Protest, leading to the Umpire's ruling and having to file a protest.
What is your opinion on the final RRS 15 ruling (where Yellow got a DSQ), as both boats almost tacked at the same time. Yellow was clearly claused hauled on starboard, Orange was turning slow to give RoW, or gambled they could pass in front of Yellow.
The complete video I just extracted shows the whole situation in real time and was also shown during the hearing.
On the one hand, I'm loathe to draw conclusions from a video, and I definitely see how the starboard boat could be seen as breaking RRS15.
However, I see something that counters that conclusion: at 42 seconds, JJ (Orange) begins her turn to avoid. However, at 45 seconds, with her jib partially luffing, she arrests her turn by centering her tiller (or even slightly above). JJ does not start turning again until 50 seconds, and does not cross head-to-wind until 58 seconds. That's 16+ seconds between Yellow reaching close-hauled and JJ crossing HTW. Additionally, within that time, JJ kills all their speed, making it even harder for them to avoid. It's an odd maneuver by JJ IMO.
I actually think your diagram is too "kind" to Orange. I think when Z (Yellow) completes her tack, there is more than 2 boat-lengths between them. Also, JJ fails to even get past HTW before they come together, which isn't quite represented correctly in your diagram.
I think it's likely that most protest committees would need help getting there, but it should be possible to find Orange delayed their avoiding maneuver for too long.