Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

Is RRS A8.1 fair?

P
Marco Cimarosti
Nationality: Italy
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • National Race Officer
In a international race, a competitor lost the final first place in application of the RRS A8.1.
In the SI was scheduled 3 races, and the final series score had to exclude the worst score. 
His boat, the boat A, arrived 1-2-2, and the winner boat, the boat B, arrived 2-3-1. So excluding the worst score A had 3 point, and the same B, which won by the best score in the last race, with the same number of first and second places thank to the exclusion of the worst score. Clear application of the RRS A8.1. But the competitor in question thinks that this application is not fair, because in the realty the boat A had, not considering the worst score, the best series of scores!  He thinks that, for example, that if the boat A had 1-2-3, and the boat B 3-2-1, the application of RRS A8.1 was fair, but not in the above case where the boat A arrived more times ahead of B, and for sportsmanship A deserved to win.
It is proposable a modification of the RRS A8.1, in case of further tie after the verification of the best positions, that before to consider the score of the last race are considered all scores without the exclusion of the worst score?
What is your opinion?
Created: 19-Sep-22 17:53

Comments

P
Uros Zvan
Nationality: Slovenia
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • National Race Officer
0
Hi, Marco. It's a pleasure to discuss with you. My answer is: depends on circumstances. Let's imagine that boat B was in the leading position in race no.2 till 100 m to the finishing line. Then the boat B broke a tiller and finished on 3rd place. That's why we have a discard. It's fair to have a discard? It's fair or not, it's a rule which everybody knows well before entering the race. Look at the RRS 3.1(a)
Created: 19-Sep-22 18:26
Tim Hohmann
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Umpire In Training
  • Regional Judge
0
My opinion is that both competitors knew the scoring to be used before the race so they can't complain when it was followed just because they don't like the result. 

Both boats knew they needed to beat the other in the last race to win the regatta. Boat B won when they needed to. Would it be fair to boat B to rewrite the scoring after the races had been run? 

The OA could have changed A2.1 (before the regatta) to no throwouts if they'd wanted to but they didn't. 
Created: 19-Sep-22 18:27
Lloyd Causey
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
Like Tim said it is best for the OA to prevent quirky accurate scores is to change the throw outs in the SIs. I find that is done more often than not on the Championship events I judge.

Created: 19-Sep-22 19:22
Tim Hohmann
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Umpire In Training
  • Regional Judge
0
It seems particularly appropriate to eliminate throwouts in a short series (say, fewer than 5 races) to avoid the situation that Marco cited. 
Created: 19-Sep-22 20:03
Clark Chapin
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Club Race Officer
0
First of all, three races is a pretty short series to exclude a boat's worst score.
Second of all, my study of the effect of excluding a boat's worst score shows that, IMHO, it often penalizes consistency, even at the top of the standings ("podium finishes").
Scoring Analysis-Discarded Scores.pdf 259 KB
Created: 19-Sep-22 20:56
Dan Bowman
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Race Officer In Training
0
Scoring must follow the rules as covered in the RRS and SI.  The rules cannot change after the competition is over, but you can learn a lesson from it and change future competitions.

On that thought, I have been convincing RC's and competitors to eliminate throw outs as often as I can.  I strongly agree with Mr. Chapin that throw outs penalize consistent performance.  When I see a throw I often look down the list of the top 5 competitors to see if the throw out rule has changed the results and find it disturbing how often it does.  Check out the competitions that are leaders to the Olympics and you will find the same.  This does not seem like a sporting way to handle races.
Created: 19-Sep-22 21:24
Warren Nethercote
Nationality: Canada
0
A discard with three races is indeed unfortunate.

As an alternative, in the DN class our first level tie break is who beat whom the most.  It might be fairer than A8.1 if it matters, but has proven difficult to program.  But given that choice is arbitrary to some degree, A8.1 is as good as any.
Created: 19-Sep-22 23:02
Jon Eskdale
Nationality: United Kingdom
0
In my opinion - This is always a difficult one - whether it is fair often depends on the circumstances but you have to have rules.  Had one of these boats had a kit failure in one of the races and there were no discards then you may consider that unfair.  International Windsurfing events use slightly different rules, they use the best discard which solves this problem but can introduce other issues.

See RRS B8.A8   SERIES TIES  - This is supported by Sailwave but you will need to enable it in Setup User Interface and enable Non-standard series tie options
Jon
Created: 19-Sep-23 10:37
P
Marco Cimarosti
Nationality: Italy
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • National Race Officer
0
Dear all, I agree with all your answers, all right!  But my idea, to get RRS A8 more fair, is to add to RRS A 8.1 that in case of further tie, before to apply RRS A 8.2 (the best score in the last race), is needed to recalculate the total score without the exclusion of the worst score. In this way, just to solve the tie, it will be considered the real result over the water, the best possible way for to reach the sportiness. Ciao to all. Marco
Created: 19-Sep-23 15:51
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