Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

Changing forestry tension while racing

Jim Wente
Nationality: Canada
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
Racing a keelboat with class rules governed by PHRF Lake Ontario
is it permissible to change the forestry tension by tightening/untightening the turnbuckle while racing?
Created: 18-Jun-24 15:46

Comments

Bill Handley
Nationality: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Certifications:
  • National Judge
0
Not being familiar with the class rules I couldn't express an opinion. That having been said the class rules should express a view clearly on this subject. If they do not RRS 63.4(b) invites us to refer the matter to the authority responsible for interpreting the class rules which will be identified in the class rules - usually the committee of the class association. This question would be better directed to that authority.
Created: 18-Jun-24 18:01
Dobbs Davis
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • National Umpire
  • National Measurer
0
In general adjustment of standing rigging is not permitted in most big boat rating rules, except to adjust headstay tension. ORC for e.g. defines adjustment of headstay tension in the rating rule by being None, Aft, Forestay, or both Aft and Forestay. The style chosen has a corresponding effect on the ratings.

This is not in the RRS, and its probably not addressed in the local PHRF rules since so few boats have adjustable headstays (e.g., 1D35), and even fewer have both adjustable headstays and backstays (e.g., TP 52).

Hope this helps.
Created: 18-Jun-24 18:10
Dobbs Davis
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • National Umpire
  • National Measurer
0
An addendum to my comment is that most big boats have adjustable backstays by mechanical or hydraulic power, and this is permitted in all handicap rules.
Created: 18-Jun-24 18:27
Angelo Guarino
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Jim,

I looked at all the resources I could find for PHRF and I don't see anything which specifically forbids changing the standing rigging while racing.

Like Bill and Dobbs point out, this is usually specifically detailed in OD fleets. For example, in our J/105 rules we have the following ...

7.4 The headstay length shall not be changed after the boat leaves its dock or mooring until the completion of all racing started that same day.

7.9 While racing, the standing rigging (other than the back stay) shall not be adjusted. The location of the mast butt and the location of the mast at the partners shall not be adjusted after the boat leaves its dock or mooring until completion of all racing started that same day. This rule shall not apply to any race with a scheduled length of 25 nautical miles or more.

... so you can see what you can change can be very specific and in the J/105's it's case dependent upon the scheduled length of the race.

Years ago I competed in my Pearson 10M under PHRF .. so I looked at Chesapeake PHRF's doc's and I couldn't find any mention of standing rig adjustment limitations.

If there is a limitation under PHRF, it would be either under national PHRF rules, regional PHRF rules .. but not the RRS.

Ang

Created: 18-Jun-24 20:56
Ted Jones
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Umpire In Training
0
I have read the PHRF rules on Lake Michigan, though not recently. There was no restriction on it as of a couple of years ago, so we have happily adjusted the headstay on the downwinds. ORR, thinks differently.

Ted
Created: 18-Jun-25 00:17
Angelo Guarino
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Fleet Measurer
0
From PHRF-LE (Lake Erie) Class Rules .. http://​​​​​​​http://phrf-le.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/ClassRules_2017.pdf

11.2 Rig: Rig construction and adjustments must be in compliance with either the IMS, or the MORC specifications to be permitted in PHRF. Other non-handicapping rules of the IOR are in effect for PHRF. They include rules for placement and movement of ballast as well as such items as the positioning of crew members. No adjustment of the standing rig other than backstays is allowed while racing

Interesting that this wording implies that the adjustment of rigging during racing is a hold-over from IOR and that these non-rating rules carry forward ("are in effect for PHRF"). Not clear if they are implying that all PHRF carries this forward or just PHRF-LE.

​​​​​​​Ang

Created: 18-Jun-25 01:10
Ross Hamilton
Nationality: United States of America
1
I didn't know there was any tension going on in forestry. Isn't that a NRC or DNR issue? I think someone is missing something here? Interesting how so many jump right in! LOL!
Created: 18-Jun-25 02:03
Michael Better
Nationality: United States of America
0
Ted,

I really wish someone would do something about that ORR rule in the context of the CYC Race to Mackinac. Per to the normal sailing instructions, when two rules are in conflict, the more restrictive rule takes precedence, but you then have things like special Mac addenda for J/105 Fleet 5 which specifically allow adjustment of standing rigging during the race. The rule is almost certainly being widely broken.

Mike
Created: 18-Jun-25 19:49
Ted Jones
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • Umpire In Training
0
Mike,

Agreed. I hate setting the tension at the dock and having no adjustment during the next 40+ hours.

I'll bring it up in August.

T
Created: 18-Jun-25 19:53
Angelo Guarino
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Ted and Mike,

FWIW, if there is an OD start for the 105's then no need for special language as the race is over 25 miles. Feel free to borrow the language I posted earlier in the thread from the 105's rules.

Ang
Created: 18-Jun-25 21:49
Michael Better
Nationality: United States of America
0
Angelo, the issue lies mainly in the conflict between class rules and ORR rules, caused by invoking both in the NOR. From the 2017 CYC Race to Mackinac NOR:

2.1 The Race shall be governed by:
...
e. The rules of the Offshore Racing Rule (ORR) for monohulls and the rules of Great Lakes Multihull Racing Association (GLMRA) for multihulls.

f. Class Rules – Boats racing in an approved One-Design Section shall be subject to their Class Rules and all modifications accepted by the CYCMC. If there is a difference between a Class Rule, a handicap rule of the Division, this Notice and Conditions of Race (NOR) or the Sailing Instructions (SI), the more restrictive rule shall apply. If there is a question as to what is more restrictive, the measurer's decision shall be final.
...


Both class rules and ORR rules are included as boats are also competing for overall awards in addition to fleet awards.
Created: 18-Jun-25 21:56
Dobbs Davis
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • National Umpire
  • National Measurer
0
Besides standing rigging adjustment, you may also want to consider rules on adjustment of mast jacks while racing. These can be just as powerful at shifting gears in rig tension as adjusting shroud and stay tensions, with a corresponding effect on performance.

ORC allows an adjustable jack to be on board, but its use while racing is not allowed by default (although an OA may amend this if desired). For IRC its declared and receives a rating hit, and I think PHRF is silent...not sure about ORR. The Melges 32 and MC38 is, for example, equipped with jacks as standard equipment and its adjustable within class rules.

This question arose in last month's Down the Bay Race from Annapolis to Hampton, and after one owner's suggestion the ORC class members decided among themselves they would not use their jacks unless everyone in the class was equipped with them - some were not, so the matter was decided amicably without further debate.
Created: 18-Jun-25 22:38
Lloyd Causey
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
0
I suppose many boats would have some things that benefit being tweaked after the start such as the mast location block or standing rigging. When I was campaining a PHRF handicap boat we used an adjustable backstay that was a set of blocks pulling down to bring the split backstay closer. Going upwind the backstay could be adjusted as tight as wanted to flatten main and head sails and tighten the headstay to get the good angle of attack and point well. the control was an 8:1 block system that any crew could work. When setting the spinnaker it was a quick release to ease the backstay.

I don't think there are universal rules that define this as it is mostly a class rule thing. PHRF also being a class that has many rules, regulations that work for the most racers can usually be changed with enough grass roots support.
Created: 18-Jun-27 15:42
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