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Match Racing with one boat reversing backwards head to wind.
Massimo Henderson
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
Regional Umpire
Club Judge
0
Hi all, Recently I came across a situation during a match racing pre-start during training in Elliot 7s. The wind was ~10 knots and there was minimal tide or current. I was steering onboard boat number 4. The situation was we were both sitting head to wind from luffing on starboard. Boat 2 began to back their mainsail out to port. Me on boat 4 disengaged and sailed away on port. Footage of the incident clearly shows the jib onboard boat 2 backed strongly on its port side, indicating to me that they were past head to wind from starboard tack. As a club level umpire watching the footage afterwards I was certain that they had passed head to wind and had not reached a close hauled course. Boat 2 continued to sail backwards like this and Boat 4 gybed onto a broad reach on starboard approximately 6-7 boat-lengths away. I altered course onto a collision course and there was no reaction from boat 2 as the boats converged. As the boats converged boat 4 hailed starboard as for me on boat 4 I could see Boat 2's jib backed with the wind blowing over its port side. The boats then reached approximately 1 boat length when Boat 4 had to take sharp avoiding action by bearing away and gybing to avoid the collision. After avoiding action was taken Boat 2 began to fall out onto starboard. Boats came within ~2 metres. Both boats protested and Boat 4 was given a penalty. Watching the video after I believe it should have being either a green flag or a penalty on boat 2 under rule 13 (tacking boat). My coach says rule 13 doesn't apply when sailing backwards and as boat 2 started on starboard she is still on starboard. How does rule C2.5 (7), last point of certainty, apply to this scenario? And when a boat is sailing backwards and passes head to wind does rule 13 apply? What should the call be? Thanks, images and hopefully the video below.
Match racing is by no means my speciality. Generally it is course which determines the tack a boat is on, backed sails are not the key. This being match racing, 21.3 is deleted. I suppose three relevant questions are had 2's course passed head to wind and if so, has she reached a close hauled course when you avoided. Did 2 take avoiding action.
If 2 took no avoiding action, then no penalty on 4. If 2 had passed head to wind and had not reached a close hauled course then penalty on 2 unless she was unable to keep clear when 4 altered towards her. It seems likely she had very little manoeuvrability on account of low speed so might not have been able to keep clear.
Created: 22-Oct-28 15:49
Adrain Law
Nationality: United Kingdom
0
In the photo "boat 4 taking avoiding action" Boat 2's jib looks full and in "boats converging" whilst the jib is backed, the main is full so it looks as though it is on Starboard with the jib backed to help it turn. If 2 is going backwards it has no rights. If stationary or moving forward slightly it is close hauled on starboard and ROW boat would be my take. Others are much more qualified though. Great images.
Created: 22-Oct-28 16:35
Jean-Pierre Cordonnier
Nationality: France
Certifications:
Regional Race Officer
National Umpire
International Judge
1
Let assume that this is the situation you have described:
Blue(B) boat is boat 2 in your description and Yellow(Y) is boat 4.
In position 1, B is ROW and Y is GW Same in position 2 and 3. In position 4, B is tacking and 4 is gybing. In position 5, B is GW (tacking) and Y is ROW (starboard). In position 6, B is back to starboard while Y is also starboard. They are both on the windward side of each other. Who is ROW ? Both ! In position 7, B is nearly stopped to avoid a collision and Y is also avoiding by gybing away. You can now decide who is wrong ! I would say nobody, no penalty.
Man, I need to stop using my iPhone to read the RRS (or get reading glasses). Yes, Appx C deletes 21.3!
Created: 22-Oct-28 17:58
Aldo Balelli
Nationality: Italy
Certifications:
National Race Officer
National Judge
0
Well, one thing i do not get: ok about forgetting rule 21.3, but, on picture 3 and 4, boat 4 is starboard, and boat 2 is on port. Rule 10. Why penalty to boat 4?
Created: 22-Oct-28 18:00
Stephen Procter
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
International Judge
National Umpire
0
I like the Boat Diagram that Jean-Pierre has created but there should a position 0 with both boats on Starboard as picture 1.
I Think you need to know how umpires talk. When talking they always give the Right of Way (ROW) or give way (GW) or a statement that gives the same information or transition and if possible the reason, any obligations and possibly opportunity.
I would expect the umpires to say something like the following at each position
0 B: ROW leeward boat
Y: I am keeping clear.(This means I am GW and doing everything to keep clear)
1 B:ROW starboard going astern
Y: GW Port
2 B:ROW starboard going astern
Y: GW Port
3 B:ROW starboard going astern
Y: GW Port bearing away
4 B:Tacking
Y:Gybing
5 B:Tacking doing everything to avoid
Y:Altering to collision course. When I create a collision course I have to give you the opportunity to avoid.
6 B:Complete Starboard you need to avoid me.
Y:Altering to avoid you
7 B:ROW Starboard that is close
Y:Complete gybed on to Port
At position 4 both boats are changing tack so no Right of Way
At Position 6 the important information is when the tack is complete
At positing 7 if both umpires agree the closest distance between both boats is too close it is penalty Yellow. If there is disagreement I would expect Green
why BRW in pos 2 starboard? Is on port, backing sail
Created: 22-Oct-28 18:34
Aldo Balelli
Nationality: Italy
Certifications:
National Race Officer
National Judge
0
unless you mean that, going backward, boat 2 is " sailing by the lee" so the tack is where the mainsail lies?
Created: 22-Oct-28 18:37
Stephen Procter
Nationality: United Kingdom
Certifications:
International Judge
National Umpire
0
Aldo if you are commenting on my post for the positions reference to Jean-Pierre diagram
Created: 22-Oct-28 18:47
P
Angelo Guarino
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
Regional Judge
Fleet Measurer
0
When I look at pic #1 .. look at the sails of the boat on the right. Nobody is holding the main.
Now look at both hulls.
Seems to me at #1, both boats are past HTW and both on port.
Created: 22-Oct-28 19:23
Anders Rydlöv
Nationality: Sweden
Certifications:
National Judge
National Umpire
0
The first one completing tack/gybe (pos 4-5-6 JP drawing) is right of way and the other must keep clear (RRS13). If there is an obvious difference (it seems like yellow is the early one in the drawing),.... If so you could argue that yellow still is right of way referring to “last point of certainty”. See Call no B10.
Comment: In addition both could be regarded keep clear boat (RRS 11) so not a safe case to put in the hands of the umpires.
Created: 22-Oct-29 18:56
Aldo Balelli
Nationality: Italy
Certifications:
National Race Officer
National Judge
0
sorry, again, i cannot get a point: if a boat goes backward, how do you tell wether she is starboard or port? Is she "sailing past 90 degree from wind direction"?
Created: 22-Oct-30 07:58
Mark Townsend
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
International Race Officer
International Umpire
International Judge
0
A boat is on the tack, starboard or port, corresponding to her windward side.
Created: 22-Oct-30 14:13
Aldo Balelli
Nationality: Italy
Certifications:
National Race Officer
National Judge
0
ok, but when sailing by the lee or directly downwind, her leeward side is the side on which her mainsail lies. Now, again, going backward is "" sailing by the lee or directly downwind""?
Created: 22-Oct-31 07:00
P
Angelo Guarino
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
Regional Judge
Fleet Measurer
0
Aldo, it’s very interesting that with English being a 2nd language for you, that you ask questions which expose items that English speakers might simply assume. It leads me to read things from a new perspective so thank you for that.
What you are exposing is that def: Tack, Starboard or Port as well as def: Clear Astern and Clear Ahead; Overlap rely upon the concept of “sides” of a boat (port/starboard) as well as orientation of a boat (“sailing more than 90 degrees to the wind”) which are determined relative to a boat’s geometry and physical characteristics and not the direction a boat is going. Since these terms are not defined in the RRS (or ERS for that matter), we have to rely upon their common usage.
MR Call B8 supports this when it talks about whether a boat is overlapped or clear ahead/astern does not depend upon the direction a boat is going. In MR B8, Blue remains clear astern of Yellow after they both start moving astern.
In def: Tack, Starboard or Port, it uses the word “side”. What is maybe a bit confusing is that within the definition itself, it has port and starboard in italics but also relies upon us using the common understanding of the port/starboard side of a boat.
So, we determine whether or not a boat is onport or starboardtack (italicized terms) by first determining what “side” of the boat is away from the wind (Def: windward and leeward). That’s her leeward side and the other is her windward side.
Next take that “windward side” and we have to simultaneously use port/starboard in their common meaning to describe the sides of a boat. The port and starboard “side” is an unchanging characteristic of the vessel and is not dependent upon the direction of the wind or the direction a boat is moving.
Therefore, the fact that a boat is moving astern does not flip the port/starboardsides of a boat. The windward and leeward side does not change and it follows that the tack the boat is on, port or starboard, does not change either, based upon def: Tack, Starboard or Port.
Created: 22-Oct-31 14:57
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If 2 took no avoiding action, then no penalty on 4. If 2 had passed head to wind and had not reached a close hauled course then penalty on 2 unless she was unable to keep clear when 4 altered towards her. It seems likely she had very little manoeuvrability on account of low speed so might not have been able to keep clear.
Blue(B) boat is boat 2 in your description and Yellow(Y) is boat 4.
In position 1, B is ROW and Y is GW
Same in position 2 and 3.
In position 4, B is tacking and 4 is gybing.
In position 5, B is GW (tacking) and Y is ROW (starboard).
In position 6, B is back to starboard while Y is also starboard. They are both on the windward side of each other. Who is ROW ? Both !
In position 7, B is nearly stopped to avoid a collision and Y is also avoiding by gybing away.
You can now decide who is wrong !
I would say nobody, no penalty.
Now look at both hulls.
Seems to me at #1, both boats are past HTW and both on port.
See Call no B10.
Comment: In addition both could be regarded keep clear boat (RRS 11) so not a safe case to put in the hands of the umpires.
Now, again, going backward is "" sailing by the lee or directly downwind""?
What you are exposing is that def: Tack, Starboard or Port as well as def: Clear Astern and Clear Ahead; Overlap rely upon the concept of “sides” of a boat (port/starboard) as well as orientation of a boat (“sailing more than 90 degrees to the wind”) which are determined relative to a boat’s geometry and physical characteristics and not the direction a boat is going. Since these terms are not defined in the RRS (or ERS for that matter), we have to rely upon their common usage.
MR Call B8 supports this when it talks about whether a boat is overlapped or clear ahead/astern does not depend upon the direction a boat is going. In MR B8, Blue remains clear astern of Yellow after they both start moving astern.
In def: Tack, Starboard or Port, it uses the word “side”. What is maybe a bit confusing is that within the definition itself, it has port and starboard in italics but also relies upon us using the common understanding of the port/starboard side of a boat.
So, we determine whether or not a boat is on port or starboard tack (italicized terms) by first determining what “side” of the boat is away from the wind (Def: windward and leeward). That’s her leeward side and the other is her windward side.
Next take that “windward side” and we have to simultaneously use port/starboard in their common meaning to describe the sides of a boat. The port and starboard “side” is an unchanging characteristic of the vessel and is not dependent upon the direction of the wind or the direction a boat is moving.
Therefore, the fact that a boat is moving astern does not flip the port/starboard sides of a boat. The windward and leeward side does not change and it follows that the tack the boat is on, port or starboard, does not change either, based upon def: Tack, Starboard or Port.