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Speed/Time/Distance - Lasers
Bob Meagher
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
National Judge
1
Does anyone have a speed/time/distance table (or spreadsheet) for Lasers?
Created: 21-Dec-17 13:16
Comments
Carl Schellbach
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
National Race Officer
1
Morning Bob- Peter Van Muyden has a bunch of those on his website. Interactive and all that. http://jpvm.org Or shoot me an email and I'll send what I have to you.
Best, -- Carl
Created: 21-Dec-17 13:40
Roberto Armellin
Nationality: Italy
Certifications:
International Judge
Regional Umpire
National Race Officer
0
pls get a look to this link: "https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=http%3A%2F%2Ffinckh.net%2Fdeutsch%2Fmaterial%2Fformulare%2Ftargettimes.xls&wdOrigin=BROWSELINK" cheers, Rob
Created: 21-Dec-17 13:52
Mark DeGuire
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
Club Judge
Club Race Officer
0
See tabs for different classes: https://assets.rya.org.uk/assetbank-rya-assets/action/directLinkImage?assetId=50444
Created: 21-Dec-17 14:07
P
Peter van Muyden
Nationality: Canada
Certifications:
Judge In Training
International Race Officer
1
Here is a link to my target time models: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dpum6zdg3j81cx8/AAC0LQWejFjG3VpY2kqXImEka?dl=0 The Laser models are pretty accurate, but you can adjust them if needed. The models will give you a windward leg length based on wind speed and a forecasted race time based on the rounding time of any of the marks. Email me if you need further explanation.
Peter
Created: 21-Dec-17 14:42
P
Paul Jackson
Nationality: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Certifications:
International Race Officer
0
These will help https://www.rya.org.uk/racing/running-racing/speed-charts These are what we use.
Created: 21-Dec-17 15:54
Al Sargent
Nationality: United States of America
0
Bob, when you wrote your request, I interpreted it as something like, "how many seconds for a Laser to sail X boatlengths, at various points of sail and wind speeds". To corroborate testimony during protest hearings, e.g., "We entered the 3 boatlength zone, and 10 seconds later I began rounding the mark."
Do the race management links above work for you, or were you looking for something more along the lines of what I'm suggesting?
Created: 21-Dec-17 20:19
Bob Meagher
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
National Judge
0
You are correct, I'm looking for the judging resource, not the race management tool, but they are fascinating.
Created: 21-Dec-17 20:45
Carl Schellbach
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
National Race Officer
0
Bob- I just sent you a PM with a speed and distance table for fulls and radials. Each knot is 1.688888 ft/sec, and the speeds are taken from the Speeds worksheet in the files that Roberto, Mark and Peter linked (they're all close enough to each other for government work).
Created: 21-Dec-17 21:53
Al Sargent
Nationality: United States of America
0
Carl, it'd be great to see those speed and distance tables if you're comfortable sharing.
Bob, one data point is that in ~10 knots, a Laser will sail from ~8 kph to ~16 kph downwind, depending on whether it's surfing or not. (We know this from a video by Brett Bayer, a 14x Laser Masters World Champ, who shared a training video with us. It's behind a subscription paywall, so I cannot share it here.)
Given that there are 1.852 kilometers in a nautical mile, each kph is 0.9 foot/second.
So, a Laser non-surfing in ~10 knots will do ~7 feet/second (= 8 kph * 0.9 foot/second/kph, or half a boatlength per second). A Laser surfing in ~10 knots will do twice that: ~14 feet/second -- that's one boatlength per second, which means a 3 BL zone will be traversed in 3 seconds.
Bigger picture, if there are time/distance questions in a protest involving Lasers, it's worth asking about wave state and if/when someone was surfing (or upwind, pounding), since either of those will impact boatspeed and the time/distance situation.
Created: 21-Dec-17 22:58
Mark Townsend
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
International Race Officer
International Umpire
International Judge
2
Attached is a protest hearing procedure card that I use. On one side is a hearing checklist, on the other is a chart I use to figure out how long a boat takes to travel one boat length at a given speed and a decision tree to help you understand if a boat broke rule 14. Hope they help.
Protest Hearing Procedures 2021-2024.pdf383 KB
image.png198 KB
image.png312 KB
Created: 21-Dec-18 00:24
Ewan McEwan
Nationality: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Certifications:
Regional Race Officer
International Judge
International Umpire
0
What I particularly like about Peter Van Muyden‘s charts is the predicted finish time look up table that he includes - handy to keep everything on track.
Created: 21-Dec-18 01:26
Philip Hubbell
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
Club Race Officer
Judge In Training
-1
I appreciate the value of speed/time/distance tables for RC setting up drop buoy courses, but doubt their usefulness in the protest room regarding boat-for-boat interactions, other than their psyche-out/bullying bluffery.
Created: 21-Dec-18 21:32
Ewan McEwan
Nationality: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Certifications:
Regional Race Officer
International Judge
International Umpire
0
There are useful for identifying probabilities. Which is one of the more important abilities for judging a situation.
Created: 21-Dec-18 23:08
Leo Reise
Nationality: Canada
Certifications:
International Judge
0
I have a time / speed / distance chart if anyone wants it. Email me. Email can be found In World Sailing, US Sailing or Sail Canada Officials.
Created: 21-Dec-19 00:29
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Peter Van Muyden has a bunch of those on his website. Interactive and all that. http://jpvm.org Or shoot me an email and I'll send what I have to you.
Best,
-- Carl
"https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=http%3A%2F%2Ffinckh.net%2Fdeutsch%2Fmaterial%2Fformulare%2Ftargettimes.xls&wdOrigin=BROWSELINK"
cheers,
Rob
https://assets.rya.org.uk/assetbank-rya-assets/action/directLinkImage?assetId=50444
Peter
https://www.rya.org.uk/racing/running-racing/speed-charts
These are what we use.
Do the race management links above work for you, or were you looking for something more along the lines of what I'm suggesting?
I just sent you a PM with a speed and distance table for fulls and radials. Each knot is 1.688888 ft/sec, and the speeds are taken from the Speeds worksheet in the files that Roberto, Mark and Peter linked (they're all close enough to each other for government work).
Bob, one data point is that in ~10 knots, a Laser will sail from ~8 kph to ~16 kph downwind, depending on whether it's surfing or not.
(We know this from a video by Brett Bayer, a 14x Laser Masters World Champ, who shared a training video with us. It's behind a subscription paywall, so I cannot share it here.)
Given that there are 1.852 kilometers in a nautical mile, each kph is 0.9 foot/second.
So, a Laser non-surfing in ~10 knots will do ~7 feet/second (= 8 kph * 0.9 foot/second/kph, or half a boatlength per second). A Laser surfing in ~10 knots will do twice that: ~14 feet/second -- that's one boatlength per second, which means a 3 BL zone will be traversed in 3 seconds.
Bigger picture, if there are time/distance questions in a protest involving Lasers, it's worth asking about wave state and if/when someone was surfing (or upwind, pounding), since either of those will impact boatspeed and the time/distance situation.
but doubt their usefulness in the protest room regarding boat-for-boat interactions,
other than their psyche-out/bullying bluffery.
Email me. Email can be found In World Sailing, US Sailing or Sail Canada Officials.