Forum: Protest Hearing Procedures
Appendix T1 without T2?
P
Christopher WalmsleyNationality: Canada
Certifications:
- Club Race Officer
- National Judge
- Fleet Measurer
0
Proposal: Have the SIs activate T1, and not T2. Also have the SIs adjust the wording of RRS T (c) so that the penalty is submitted, not to an arbitrator, but to the ...<whatever is appropriate>
Rational: Have boats, who may have been involved on the water in a Part 2 incident, be able to reconsider and determine they are in the wrong (any time within the protest time limit) and then submit for a "Post Race Penalty". ( RSS T1 (c) )
Background: For our club races, we used to activate all of Appendix T, but have found it impractical to always be able to provide an arbitrator. We thought about withdrawing all of Appendix T from our SIs, but were pondering just using T1 in order to encourage post race discussion, possible consultation with knowledgeable people, consultation with local judges, or just reading the RRS in more detail, and to be able to change their minds about what happened on the water and take a lesser penalty. (with the same right of a protestor to continue with a hearing, but also with the protestee not being given a worse penalty that the 30% they accepted)
I suppose the likely scenario would be when a protest is lodged, a protestee who didn't take any on-water penalties, might acknowledge they were wrong and take a T (30%) penality.
In a rarer case, but more sportsmanlike, even if a protest weren't lodged, a boat could acknowledge their incorrect actions, and take such a penality.
Is this a bad idea for an evening beer-can series?
Thanks
Chris
Rational: Have boats, who may have been involved on the water in a Part 2 incident, be able to reconsider and determine they are in the wrong (any time within the protest time limit) and then submit for a "Post Race Penalty". ( RSS T1 (c) )
Background: For our club races, we used to activate all of Appendix T, but have found it impractical to always be able to provide an arbitrator. We thought about withdrawing all of Appendix T from our SIs, but were pondering just using T1 in order to encourage post race discussion, possible consultation with knowledgeable people, consultation with local judges, or just reading the RRS in more detail, and to be able to change their minds about what happened on the water and take a lesser penalty. (with the same right of a protestor to continue with a hearing, but also with the protestee not being given a worse penalty that the 30% they accepted)
I suppose the likely scenario would be when a protest is lodged, a protestee who didn't take any on-water penalties, might acknowledge they were wrong and take a T (30%) penality.
In a rarer case, but more sportsmanlike, even if a protest weren't lodged, a boat could acknowledge their incorrect actions, and take such a penality.
Is this a bad idea for an evening beer-can series?
Thanks
Chris
Comments
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We implement Appx V2 by itself often in SI’s.
Ang
Thanks for pointing this out!
Chris
AYC Frostbite Series SI
I also feel that V2 clearly gives an option to a boat accepting its mistake in true sportsman spirit.
I would start using this in our local events here.
Also, I notice this needs updating in the new quad thanks to Philips scan of the actual page. I’ll get to that :-)
I'm a great fan of both Post Race Penalties and Arbitration.
Post Race Penalties encourage boats to take a penalty, after they have cooled down, and had a chance to consult the rule book. Boats taking a penalty voluntarily is good for the sport.
Arbitration can save time and is less stressful than full protest hearings. For club racing or beercans, where protest hearings may take place some days after the race, if you cannot do prompt arbitration immediately after the race, you can still do arbitration up to the door of the protest hearing, and it's still worthwhile, because it saves time, and rewards an unsuccessful protestee by allowing him to take a voluntary Post Race Penalty without disqualification.
You can also set up an SI t do arbitration by telephone, email or zoom, once again at the discretion of the arbitrator.
You can make Arbitration optional by using permissive language in your SI, and you can use separate SI paragraphs to invoke Post Race Penalties and Arbitration separately.
I've used this language.
14 PENALTY SYSTEM
and
following the Protests, or Hearing Requests Section
17 ARBITRATION
Cheers
Chris
It's a graduated penalty: it's more severe than an on-water penalty.
And the boat is taking it voluntarily. That's good for the game and for sportsmanship.
In my own experience, I’ve used the existence of after race penalties to highlight Rule 2 to competitors and the onus it puts upon those who know they’ve broken a rule to take a penalty (regardless if they were protested or not). When it’s a choice of only retiring, it’s a harder sell as compared to a few places.
After race penalties provide great opportunities to have a Basic Principles discussion.