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Protest Committee & Hearing Procedures

Conflict between NOR and SI

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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
I recently came across this in Another Forum (TM)

 
Rule 63.5(c) says 
c) If there is a conflict between 
(1) two or more rules that must be resolved before a decision can be made, and 
(2) those rules are in the notice of race, the sailing instructions, or any of the other documents that govern the event under item (g) of the definition Rule, 
then the protest committee shall apply the rule that it believes will provide the fairest result for all boats affected. 

You can change 63.5 in the NoR/SI. 

For example, you can state that in the event of conflict, the SI take precedence over the NOR.


It’s done a lot at low level events 

Has anyone come across this?

What do people think about it?
Created: Today 10:54

Comments

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Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
John are you asking what we think about changing that rule in the race docs?

If so ...  I'm curious what the perceived benefit is to the change.  What is the preferable alternate standard for resolving the conflict?

PS .. in other words .. why change it and for what?
Created: Today 11:05
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
Reply to: 21707 - Angelo Guarino
PS .. in other words .. why change it and for what?
I understand the precedence of documents clauses are common in American legal drafting.

It appears that the advocates:
  1. Assume that the race committee in drafting the SI will make fewer mistakes than the NOR, and 
  2. prefer certainty over fairness.
Created: Today 11:53
Nick Hutton
Certifications:
  • International Race Officer
I like it better that the lazy ‘if there is a conflict between the NoR and SI the SI will prevail’. 
Created: Today 11:06
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John D. Farris
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
  • Regional Judge
I see it fairly often. In many cases, one person or group writes the Notice of Race, while another writes the Sailing Instructions. That's usually how conflicts find their way into the documents.

Wearing my Judge hat, the first thing I do is identify and document the conflict, then bring it to the Race Committee's attention before racing starts. If they accept the input, great; the issue gets corrected before it affects anyone. If they choose not to make a change, I document the discussion and prepare for the possibility that it may become the subject of a hearing.

If a request for a hearing later turns on that conflict, then RRS 63.5(c) authorizes the protest committee to resolve it by applying the rule it believes provides the fairest result for all boats affected. I don't see that as the protest committee making up a solution on the spot; it's applying the process the Racing Rules already provide when an unresolved conflict exists.

Created: Today 11:13
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
Angelo, NIck,

Giveing precedence to the SI over the NOR is exactly the change being suggested.

I've edited my OP to make this clear.

NIck's wording

  ‘if there is a conflict between the NoR and SI the SI will prevail’ 

is invalid unless it's accompanied by 'this changes RRS 65.3(c)'
Created: Today 11:24
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Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
Reply to: 21710 - John Allan
Sloppy ... lazy ... are words that come to mind. 

I'm often AMAZED at how badly aligned some of the race docs I review are.  It's like the RC (usually last to post) didn't take the time to carefully review the NOR already out there.

The RC should find these conflicts and work with OA to resolve them .. not strong-arm their preference over the OA's (IMHO). 
Created: Today 11:41
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Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
Reply to: 21710 - John Allan
John re: "certainty over fairness"

Yea .. I don't buy that.  It sows confusion to the racers .. putting it onto them to ignore what they read in the NOR. 

If the SI is the preferred language and the OA doesn't want to issue an NOR mod, note that the SI changes the NOR (like any other rule change), thus calling competitor's attention to the fact that they might have read something different in the NOR.. but now it is changed in the SI. 
Created: Today 12:09
Russ Sobotta
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • Umpire In Training
  • Regional Judge
Never a good idea to create a hierarchy of SIs over the NOR.

What if the better, or more fair resolution is the language in the NOR but hands are now tied to the SI language?

Always better for the RC to coordinate with the OA early in the process before either document is published.
Created: Today 12:06
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Michael Butterfield
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • International Umpire
  • International Race Officer
The change is usually for the si to prevail.
It is easy to change a si, but there are time constraints on the nor so care is needed. 
Now some rule changes can be in the si or nor there is more room for trouble. 

I heard but have not checked that unless the nor and si say the si parapount then this is not so. 

Any comments on this latter point? 
Created: Today 14:04
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
I think you're probably right that the precedence provision has to be in the NOR.

RRS 86.1(b) says

The notice of race or sailing instructions may change a racing rule.

It might be argued that because:
  1. the NOR is published by the OA and the SI are published by the race committee (Rrs 89.2(a) and 90.2(a)), and
  2. the race committee is required to obey the OA (RRS 90.1),
 the race committee, through its SI, has no authority to change the NOR, although it might be possible to obtain the OA's agreement to changes made by the race committee

I think that, wherever the provision is, each 'conflict' between the SI and the NOR is a change to the NOR and is subject to the adequate notice requirement of RRS 89.2(b), that is to say this SI have to be published an adequate time before the effect of each change in the NOR.

If the precedence provision was in the SI and not in the NOR, that would indicate me that it was not part of a well thought out document control strategy, and I would regard any 'conflict' with convertible suspicion.

Bear in mind that most 'conflicts' occur by mistake, rather than being deliberate.  If the race committee changes the NOR by mistake in the SI, and there is a precedence provision, the race committee and the protest committee are bound hand and foot by the mistake.
Created: Today 15:53
Philip Hubbell
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Judge In Training
The NOR is a contract and affects the competitor's decision to enter, invest in travel, etc.
It makes no sense to make SI automatically and belatedly overrule a contract.
Judgement of fairness can take this into account.
Created: Today 15:06
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Beau Vrolyk
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
I think Philip has it exactly correct. It may be rare, but people actually build boats to the specifications in the Notice of Race. It would be exceedingly unfair to either modify the NoR or overrule it late in the game. I've been involved in a few of those and they get very ugly fast. Competitor stop racing entirely at certain Clubs over this sort of action.

All of this argues for extreme care to be taken when authoring a NoR, and all parties realizing that it's a contract between the OA and the Competitors.

IMHO, far better to leave 63.5(c) entirely alone and point out the risk to the OAs. Failing that, the Jury doing what's most fair seems exactly right.
Created: Today 15:48
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Benjamin Harding
Nationality: Hong Kong
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • National Judge
Back in the day, the two documents had a great deal of overlap.  For example, remember the old Appendix K-NOR and L-SI guidance? Both started off with 'Rules which apply'!

So the SI was an easy (lazy?) way to deal with errors and corrections in the earlier published NOR.  Just fix them in the SI.

Nowadays, (circa. 2021?) the NOR and SI guides are combined into Appendix J.  The content for each was fine tuned.  Appendix J2 discourages repetition from NOR to SI by using the words, "Unless included in the notice of race, the sailing instructions shall include the following:..."

So if the RRS document guidance is followed, it is unnecessary to have the precedence stipulated, since the two documents serve different functions.  There is limited repitition of topics from one to the other.

Overlap of topics (and possible conflict) is much rarer now that the two documents are organised to way better than before.

Yet, we still see old school wording and habits cropping up here and there.  Probably because the SI writers feel more secure (incorrectly so) with the 'precedence' backing them up when they make errors in the NOR. Or because they haven't actually thought it through.


Created: Today 15:52
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