Protest Committee & Hearing Procedures

Conflict between NOR and SI

Unsubscribe
P
John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
39K
Actions
I recently came across this in Another Forum (TM)

 
Rule 63.5(c) says 
c) If there is a conflict between 
(1) two or more rules that must be resolved before a decision can be made, and 
(2) those rules are in the notice of race, the sailing instructions, or any of the other documents that govern the event under item (g) of the definition Rule, 
then the protest committee shall apply the rule that it believes will provide the fairest result for all boats affected. 

You can change 63.5 in the NoR/SI. 

For example, you can state that in the event of conflict, the SI take precedence over the NOR.


It’s done a lot at low level events 

Has anyone come across this?

What do people think about it?
Created: Today 10:54

Comments

Format:
P
Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
397.05K
John are you asking what we think about changing that rule in the race docs?

If so ...  I'm curious what the perceived benefit is to the change.  What is the preferable alternate standard for resolving the conflict?

PS .. in other words .. why change it and for what?
Created: Today 11:05
P
John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
233.1K
Reply to: 21707 - Angelo Guarino
PS .. in other words .. why change it and for what?
I understand the precedence of documents clauses are common in American legal drafting.

It appears that the advocates:
  1. Assume that the race committee in drafting the SI will make fewer mistakes than the NOR, and 
  2. prefer certainty over fairness.
Created: Today 11:53
Nick Hutton
Certifications:
  • International Race Officer
10.15K
I like it better that the lazy ‘if there is a conflict between the NoR and SI the SI will prevail’. 
Created: Today 11:06
P
John D. Farris
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
  • Regional Judge
10.05K
I see it fairly often. In many cases, one person or group writes the Notice of Race, while another writes the Sailing Instructions. That's usually how conflicts find their way into the documents.

Wearing my Judge hat, the first thing I do is identify and document the conflict, then bring it to the Race Committee's attention before racing starts. If they accept the input, great; the issue gets corrected before it affects anyone. If they choose not to make a change, I document the discussion and prepare for the possibility that it may become the subject of a hearing.

If a request for a hearing later turns on that conflict, then RRS 63.5(c) authorizes the protest committee to resolve it by applying the rule it believes provides the fairest result for all boats affected. I don't see that as the protest committee making up a solution on the spot; it's applying the process the Racing Rules already provide when an unresolved conflict exists.

Created: Today 11:13
P
John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Certifications:
  • National Race Officer
  • National Judge
233.1K
Angelo, NIck,

Giveing precedence to the SI over the NOR is exactly the change being suggested.

I've edited my OP to make this clear.

NIck's wording

  ‘if there is a conflict between the NoR and SI the SI will prevail’ 

is invalid unless it's accompanied by 'this changes RRS 65.3(c)'
Created: Today 11:24
P
Angelo Guarino
Forum Moderator
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
397.05K
Reply to: 21710 - John Allan
Sloppy ... lazy ... are words that come to mind. 

I'm often AMAZED at how badly aligned some of the race docs I review are.  It's like the RC (usually last to post) didn't take the time to carefully review the NOR already out there.

The RC should find these conflicts and work with OA to resolve them .. not strong-arm their preference over the OA's (IMHO). 
Created: Today 11:41
You must be signed in to add a comment.
Back
Cookies help us deliver our services. By using our services, you agree to our use of cookies. Learn more