Rules 2 and 69

RRS 11, RRS 2 and General Recall

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Paul Murray
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
3K
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At the start of a handicap fleet race, about 15 sec before the start, boats A and B are approaching the starting line.

Both boats are on starboard with A overlapped to leeward of B. 

A luffed up, giving room for B to keep clear, which she did. 

A turned down about about 1 boat length below the starting line. B also turned down to weather of A. A hailed B to keep up. B responded by trying to duck down below the the line causing A to avoid contact and hailed them to stay up.
 The helmsman on the boat replied if they stayed up both boats would be OCS and continued to turn down. 
A protested B (hail/flag)

at the gun both boats turned up. No contact

About 5 sec later the RC signaled a General Recall. 

Question
Had there not been a General recall, a protest under RRS 11 would have been submitted; but the Recall made a RRS 11 protest moot.  Did B break Rule 2, knowingly breaking a rule to get an advantage?  Could a RRS 2 protest proceed even after a General recall?

Created: Yesterday 17:15

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John D. Farris
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
  • Regional Judge
9.85K
The General Recall does not erase the incident or any rule breaches that occurred before the start. It simply voids the start and eliminates any race-result consequences that would have resulted from it. A protest committee could still hear the protest and determine whether B failed to keep clear and broke Rule 11. The more difficult question is whether B's actions, particularly the helmsman's statement, demonstrate a deliberate breach intended to gain a competitive advantage and therefore violate Rule 2.

Based on the facts presented, the protest committee could reasonably conclude that B broke Rule 11. However, to find a breach of Rule 2, the committee would need to determine that B knowingly and deliberately broke a rule in a manner inconsistent with sportsmanship and fair play. The available facts support a Rule 11 allegation more strongly than a Rule 2 allegation.

Created: Yesterday 17:33
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Uros Zvan
Nationality: Slovenia
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  • National Race Officer
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Read RRS 36 (b)
Created: Yesterday 17:34
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John D. Farris
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
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  • Regional Judge
9.85K
Reply to: 21594 - Uros Zvan
Read RRS 36 (b)
After reading Rule 36(b), my view shifts from "the protest could proceed" to "the General Recall likely makes the entire incident non-actionable. 
Created: Yesterday 17:38
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Michael Butterfield
Certifications:
  • International Judge
  • International Umpire
  • International Race Officer
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There is really no such thing here as a rule 2  protest, there is a protest where rule 2 may be considered, if asked or if the protest committee so decides. 
In match racing therr would be a double penalty, a bit like rule 2
Created: Yesterday 17:45
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John Allan
Nationality: Australia
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  • National Judge
230.7K
Reply to: 21596 - Michael Butterfield
There is really no such thing here as a rule 2  protest, there is a protest where rule 2 may be considered, if asked or if the protest committee so decides.  In match racing therr would be a double penalty, a bit like rule 2
MIke ' There is really no such thing here as a rule 2  protest, there is a protest where rule 2 may be considered',

I don't think this is quite right.  It is making a RRS 2 protest look like a RRS 69 hearing which it is not.

I agree that a breach of RRS 2 that affects the fairness of the competition on the water will usually be accompanied by a breach of Part 2, but even if it is not, a breach of sportsmanship that affects the fairness of the competition is nevertheless an incident in the racing area and requires a hail of 'protest' and if necessary display of a flag.

In match racing there would be a double penalty, a bit like rule 2 

Agree, and in OP case, I think we have

  • 'B also turned down to weather of A. A hailed B to keep up. B responded by trying to duck down below the the line causing A to avoid contact. Demonstrates intention.
  •  ' The helmsman on the boat replied if they stayed up both boats would be OCS and continued to turn down.'  Demonstrates to gain advantage.

Boat B broke RRS 2.  RRS 36(b) does not exempt a RRS 2 breach.  On valid protest B should be DNE.
Created: Today 00:57
Graham Louth
Certifications:
  • Regional Umpire
  • International Judge
  • National Race Officer
7.15K
RRS 36(b) does NOT make the incident "non-actionable". If a protest is submitted then the protest committee has to hold a hearing. The race being general recalled does not of itself make the protest invalid. If the protest is valid, the protest committee has to decide which if any rules have been broken and by which boat. Only then does RRS 36(b) become relevant - if none of the rules listed in RRS 36(b) has been broken then the PC cannot impose any penalty on the relevant boat(s).
Created: Yesterday 18:25
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