Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

The 2025-2028 RRS changed 44.3(c) to the nearest 10th of a point

Jerry Thompson
Nationality: United States
The 2025-2028 RRS changed 44.3(c) to the nearest 10th of a point from the nearest whole number rounded up, perhaps to be consistent with A9.

44.3(c) The race score for a boat that takes a Scoring Penalty shall be the score she would have received without that penalty, made
worse by the number of points stated in the notice of race or sailing instructions. When the number of points is not stated,
the penalty shall be 20% of the score for Did Not Finish, rounded to the nearest tenth of a point (0.05 rounded upward).

A9 GUIDANCE ON REDRESS
If the protest committee decides to give redress by adjusting a boat’s score for a race, it is advised to consider scoring her
(a) points equal to the average, to the nearest tenth of a point (0.05 to be rounded upward), of her points in all the races in the 
series except the race in question.

My question is, is there a need for scoring to the nearest tenth of a point today besides race ties? Does anyone know of or have examples? The only examples of decimals in scoring that I can think of are covered in A8 Race Ties. If two boats cross the finish at the same instant in third place, they will both be scored 3.5.
Created: Mon 18:40

Comments

Format:
Lorenz Buchler
Nationality: Germany
Some standard penalties can be a percentage of boats entered/raced so there even tenths will be relevant. Also, sometimes SP are half a point. 
Created: Mon 19:02
Jerry Thompson
Nationality: United States
Yes, I should have thought of SPs especially since we are discussing them on another thread.

Thank you.
Created: Mon 19:13
Jim Champ
Its about series ties isn't it. It means redress and scoring penalty boats are unlikely to tie on points in a series because of rounding, which in turn means fewer of the really arbitrary tie breaks. On the whole I think that's probably a good thing.
Created: Mon 19:04
Clark Chapin
I would say that, as you surmise, was done to be consistent with the "average points" redress given (RDG) calculations in A9. 
Created: Mon 19:12
Lorenz Buchler
Nationality: Germany
If you go through the study version of the RRS, you find that the reason for the change lies in Submission 017-23 and it is to align with A9 and the DP jury policies. 
https://d7qh6ksdplczd.cloudfront.net/sailing/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/05014723/017-23-Rule-44.3c.pdf
Created: Mon 21:44
P
John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Jim Champ said
It means redress and scoring penalty boats are unlikely to tie on points in a series because of rounding, which in turn means fewer of the really arbitrary tie breaks.

So when redress is given as other than a whole number, the score of boats that placed below the redress score is worsened by 1 place.

RRS 60.5(b) says

(b) A boat shall only be penalized
(1) at a protest hearing to which she is a party,
(2) under rule 62.4, 64 or 69, or
(3) under a rule which expressly states that a penalty may be applied without a hearing.

Isn't worsening a boat's score penalising her?
Created: Mon 22:36
Jim Champ
Reply to: 18480 - John Allan
I suspect we're getting into semantics here, but to my mind the score is the actual number of points given, and not the sequential order, so no, to my mind a score that slots a redress/SP boat between two others in the sequence of finishers isn't worsening anyone's score. 

Surely the opposite position would prohibit any redress, since whether you award a non finisher 8.6 points or 9 points as redress, every boat with 10 points or more drops one place in the sequence of finishers, though their score is unchanged. 
Created: Tue 04:02
P
John Allan
Nationality: Australia
Reply to: 18480 - John Allan
Jim, I think you have a good semantic point.

When I said 'the score of boats that placed below the redress score is worsened by 1 place' I was being loose with 'score' and 'place'.

I agree that scoring one boat with a fractional score does not change or worsen the score of any other boat.

But it does change the place of some boats in the race or pointscore.

RRS 61.4(b) refers to 'score or place in a race or series' for that very reason.

So, I should have said in the last line of my previous post:

Isn't worsening a boat's place in a race or series penalising her?
Created: Tue 22:40
Jim Champ
Reply to: 18480 - John Allan
> Isn't worsening a boat's place in a race or series penalising her?

Interesting and very reasonable point. Practically speaking any adjustment of a boats score potentially affects other competitors race order and more importantly series places, so I go to my dictionary and get penalise - subject [competitor] to disadvantage or penalty. So on one reading one may certainly say that any redress award may penalize other boats, and therefore is forbidden. Clearly that's not the intent of the rule! But can we look at it another way? Redress comes up as put right again, restore equality etc. Redress is not a bonus for the boat receiving it, its the PC's best attempt to restore the race results to what they would have been had the improper or illegal action not occurred. So may we argue that the pre-redress award placing was actually a temporary artefact of the scoring process, rather than a genuine result, and therefore should be corrected just as any other scoring error would be corrected? And further may we argue that in detail the boats below the redressee are actually slightly benefitted, since they receive a score one point better than they would have done had the redress been unnecessary and the redressee finished in the place they should have done? 

I'm not sure I've phrased this as well as I might, but hope the thread is intelligible.
Created: Wed 11:59
Michael Moradzadeh
The fractional point allows a boat's position to slip between two others without creating a new tie. 
Created: Tue 03:20
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