Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

New Q&A 2018-015

Paul Zupan
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • International Judge
Q&A 2018-015 was posted on December 7th, 2018.
Created: 18-Dec-22 03:12

Comments

Angelo Guarino
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Based on this Q&A, should each official RRS translation have a page "Official Translations of RRS Hails" showing the following translations in each of the officially translated languages:

"Protest"
"Room to Tack"
"You Tack"

Both written out properly and phonetically in the pertinent language/alphabet? I'm thinking of a chart of sorts.

Ang
Created: 18-Dec-22 15:55
Leo Reise
Nationality: Canada
Certifications:
  • International Judge
3

For those that have been around for a "couple" of years, might remember when, in addition to the flag requirement, the protest hail requirement was written "protest or words to that effect", The last time that was in the rule book was in the 1993 -1996 edition. Also at at that time, penalty turns were written in an appendix and had to be invoked in the sailing instructions.

The following edition, 1997 - 2000, "words to that effect" were removed and the 2-turn penalty was the default. The argument for removing the additional words leaving "protest" the only one acceptable was to make it clear the intention to file and giving the protestee the opportunity to take a penalty - which is still the argument today.

Since that time, without exaggeration, hundreds of protests (if not thousands) have been ruled invalid because the word "protest" has not been used. Anyone reading this will no doubt recall a protest ruled invalid in the past few months - so the issue continues. "Do your turns!", "Hey goofball - you fouled me!" , and perhaps more direct language, did not cut it in the protest room. (The Q&A even outlaws "protest" in the native language.) But here is the catch - the other boat knew that they were being protested - absolutely no doubt! As an official sitting at the table, I rationalize my decision by saying, the rule is the rule, no different from any of the others. The protesting boat leaves the room with the feeling that justice has not been done and the protetee knows they got away with one. What is worse, the protesting boat has lost the incentive to file again and the protestee knows how to"duck" the penalty simply by listening to the words used by the boat fouled and based on that, take his penalty or not.

Here is the really sad part, rule 61.1(a) may be changed by the SIs.


What would the effect on rule adherence be if the SIs changed 61.1(a) by changing the word "protest" to "protest or words to that effect".

Sitting at the table, ever hear the argument "I did not hear the hail." with the response being, "the only requirement is to make the hail - not hear it!". Again,what would the effect on adherence to the rules be if the requirement to hail was deleted, leaving the display of a flag the only requirement, since there is no requirement that the hail be heard. Remember, the flag still must be displayed at the first reasonable opportunity after the incident.

If rule 61.1(a)(1) was changed by deleting the words "if the other boat is beyond hailing distance", the protestee could be informed: at the time of the incident; sometime later during the race; after the race; or on shore.

Would more protests be ruled valid?

Would adherence to the rules, i.e. boats taking penalties on the water, or, if available, post race / prehearing, increase?

I do not have a quantitative answer, but I know that justice would be served more often than it is at present.

Just my thoughts.

Created: 18-Dec-23 18:06
Angelo Guarino
Nationality: United States of America
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Leo ..

Here is the really sad part, rule 61.1(a) may be changed by the SIs. ...
What would the effect on rule adherence be if the SIs changed 61.1(a) by changing the word "protest" to "protest or words to that effect".

Good point that RRS 61.1(a) can be changed.

In another thread where we were talking about the "I-flag" wording, I pointed-out that since RRS 30 is not restricted from change in the SI's, I tossed out a couple changes that could be implemented/experimented with depending upon the RC's needs and on-the-water assets at the line (deep in this thread are 2 examples .. Thread "Recalls and Penalties").

I think this site that Paul's built (RRoS.org) could be a place for race officials to post SI modifications to the RRS that they have both vetted for adherence to RRS 85-86 and tested in the field, sharing their experience with the mod's ... both the good and the bad .. for the benefit of all. Maybe it's worth it's own category in the forum?

Back to your idea of ""protest or words to that effect" or maybe just requiring the flag on the water, .. and exploring your idea further ... what would you think of marrying that with something like US Sailing Appendix V2? That way if a protestee objected that they didn't know they were being protested and couldn't avail themselves of on-the-water turns, they could still take a penalty which is less than DSQ?

PS: Maybe with a 20% instead of 30% scoring penalty

US Sailing Appendix V2: PENALTY TAKEN AFTER A RACE

After a race, a boat that may have broken one or more rules of Part 2 or rule 31 in an incident while racing may take a Post-Race Penalty for that incident. A boat takes the penalty by delivering a written notice to the race office that identifies the race number and when and where the incident occurred. The penalty shall be a 30% Scoring Penalty, calculated as stated in rule 44.3(c). However, rules 44.1(a) and (b) apply, and the penalty shall not be taken after a protest hearing involving the incident has begun.

Created: 18-Dec-26 18:17
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