Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

Appendix V, Alternate Penalties US Sailing Prescription

J. Conal (Con) Lancaster
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Club Judge
I have a question about stating in the NoR or SIs that Appendix V applies. Does the statement "Appendix V will apply" automatically mean that both V1 and V2 will apply? In the prelude to the rule it discusses V1 and V2 and how one or both apply only if so stated. Does "Appendix V will apply" need to be clarified regarding whether one or both rules, V1 and/or V2 apply?
Second question when both V1 and V2 apply. The lead boat in a 10 boat, 40 foot one-design race, 10 to 12 knots of wind, rounds the final weather mark first by barely a boatlength and sets the spinnaker on the leg to the offset mark, bearing away and filling as they round Ao. The other nine boats are close behind in a tight grouping, all doing the same, lots of yelling and orders from the ten boats. There's some discussion on the lead boat whether they touched the offset mark. The skipper thinks they were clear but there are some doubts. The navigator points out rule App V2 applies and they can wait until finishing  and take a 30% penalty if there's still a chance they touched the mark.  Finish first, one point plus the 30%, 3 points, total four points. The mainsail trimmer explains that taking their proper V1 one turn penalty probably puts them into last place,10 points. No brainer, take the post race % penalty.
Is that a scenario that is possible? Can you have a choice and isn't that similar to rule 44.1(b) gaining significant advantage by waiting until post-race to take a lesser penalty? Is it still fair sailing to pick the lesser penalty or am I missing something?
Created: 23-Aug-30 11:35

Comments

Thomas Koenig
Nationality: Germany
Certifications:
  • Club Judge
  • National Race Officer
1
Rule 44.2 clearly states, that the penalty for touching a mark has to be taken as soon as possible. Deliberately missing out on this in my understanding is breaking rule 2 and thus disqualification that is not excludable.
Created: 23-Aug-30 12:13
Matt Bounds
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • National Race Officer
0
Hi Con (Go Blue!)

To answer your first question, if the statement "Appendix V applies" is used, it implies that the entire appendix is applicable .

The boat in your scenario is unsure if they touched a mark.  That's different than knowing you touched a mark, in which case the scenario you describe would be a breach of RRS 2 (knowingly breaking a rule).

Otherwise, it is a perfectly legitimate strategy - if a boat protests, take the 30% penalty if you're unsure you touched the mark but not willing to take the chance in a protest hearing.  If no one protests, then you must not have touched the mark (or nobody saw it) and your score is unchanged.
Created: 23-Aug-30 12:43
J. Conal (Con) Lancaster
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Club Judge
0
The skipper is not convinced he touched the mark but wants to wait until there's a protest or some confirmation  that the boat touched the mark. The philosophical question of what alternative to take is another issue. My first question remains. Does the addition of "Appendix V will apply."  turn on both V1 and V2?
Created: 23-Aug-30 12:49
J. Conal (Con) Lancaster
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Club Race Officer
  • Club Judge
0
Thanks Matt,
Yea, GO BLUE!.
 Thank you for the clarification. I expected as such but wanted some guidance. I love this forum.
Created: 23-Aug-30 13:02
P
Nicholas Kotsatos
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
0
Since this was so tidily wrapped up, can I ask a follow-up regatta management question about V2? Percentage penalties appear to have undergone some evolution over the years.
  1. V2 allows a boat to wait until after the protest is filed to withdraw.
  2. I've been in regattas (just pre appendix V I believe) where the intention to take a % penalty needed to be indicated on the water AND on land before the protest time limit.
My question is why one type of % penalty might be preferred over the other, and whether type 2 is still used at all.
Created: 23-Aug-30 14:45
P
Angelo Guarino
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Nick .. a couple things.

V2 is a 30% penalty .. so no need to "withdraw" (or maybe you mean "retire").  A boat may take the 30% scoring penalty up until the hearing opens.

V1 implements a 1-turn vs 2-turn penalty when the Part 2 breach is outside the zone of a non-starting mark.

All of RRS 44 is customizable .. so OA/RC can do a combination of possible penalties.  I have competed in events where both V1 and OTW scoring penalties are available to competitors .. as well as Appx T with arbitration which comes with after-race penalties.

Created: 23-Aug-30 15:15
P
Nicholas Kotsatos
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Judge In Training
0
excellent, thanks. I meant "accept penalty" rather than "withdraw". But good to know that more strict % penalties continue to be used.
Created: 23-Aug-30 15:21
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