Forum: Rule 18 and Room at the Mark

Rule 18 vs 19 at the Gybe Mark ( II )

Catalan Benaros
Nationality: Argentina
In my school we are talking about this case.
It is similar to "Rule 18 vs 19 at the Gybe Mark ".....and happens everyday in dinghy classes.
In Position Nº1 blue is capsized ( although it is not drawn )
In Position Nº2 R and Y have contact without damage.
In Nº3 they say PROTEZTO ( means PROTEST ) to each other.

Created: 18-May-03 21:25

Comments

Robby Hill
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Race Officer
  • Fleet Measurer
  • National Measurer
  • Club Judge
1
Incidental, no harm no foul? They both could have avoided, but did not.
Created: 18-May-04 05:45
Catalan Benaros
Nationality: Argentina
0
I think that in this case applies rrs-18 and not 19 for 19.1b.
Created: 18-May-04 11:07
Greg Dargavel
Nationality: Canada
Certifications:
  • National Judge
0
First let me say that, unlike NASCAR, there is no incidental contact in sailing. If contact is made RRS 14 is broken...... although there may be reason for exoneration.

In this case 18 certainly applies. Regarding RRS19, there is a key piece of missing information in the scenario. The scenario says that at time 1 blue was capsized, but not when blue capsized. Application of 19 requires us to determine if there was room for yellow to give to red at the time blue became an obstruction.
Created: 18-May-04 12:24
Catalan Benaros
Nationality: Argentina
0
Greg said:
The scenario says that at time 1 blue was capsized, but not when blue capsized

Answer:
Blue capsized in position Nº1 at the same time R and Y get in the zone

I believe that in Position nº1, applies rrs-18.2b and rrs-11.......and 19.2 too

Let see position Nº2
When they arrive to this position, Y have given room to R for rrs-19.2b

At position Nº2 applies19.1 and turns off rrs-19.2b.......and only applies 18.2


Created: 18-May-05 03:22
Greg Dargavel
Nationality: Canada
Certifications:
  • National Judge
1
Thanks for the clarification Catalan.

Now it comes down to the last phrase in19.2b “unless she has been unable to do so from the time the overlap began.” To my eye it looks in the last drawing that there is room for both yellow and red to pass between the capsized boat and the mark.If so they both sail through between the mark and the capsized boat, gibe and head to the next mark. No rules broken.

If there was not enough space for yellow to take the mark room to which she is entitled and still leave room for red to sail below the capsized boat “ at the time the overlap began” then yellow need not provide room below the capsized boat for red. Red must avoid the capsized boat by sailing above it.

It looked in the original drawing that red took more room than she was entitled too and “came down” on yellow so red would have broken the rule.

As always, the facts found in the particular case drive the decision.

BTW From a coaching perspective, I’d advise red to go above the capsized boat unless she is totally sure there is room for both yellow and red boats between the mark and the capsized boat. Penalty turns or a protest DSQ are just all too possible for red. Both are much slower than a little extra distance above the capsized boat.
Created: 18-May-05 23:35
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