Forum: Rule 18 and Room at the Mark

Rule 18 at the Finish

Mays Dickey
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
WI and LO are on a beat to the finish. The boats are sailing close to the port tack layline to the pin end of the finish line. WI, well overstood, bears away towards LO (Position 1) and then heads up to a close hauled course as the boats reach the zone. At the zone, WI hails for room to finish (Position 2). LO holds her course, believing that WI has sufficient room to finish at Position 3. About a boatlength from the mark, WI luffs towards but not past head to wind as she crosses the finish line in an effort to finish as quickly possible. In doing so, her transom makes contact with LO. There is no damage or injury. Assume that in the absence of her luff, WI would have crossed the finish line without making contact with LO.

Questions:

1. Does Rule 18 entitle WI to luff at the finish line, assuming that the luff was her proper course?
2. Did LO give WI the room to which she was entitled under Rule 18?

Please pardon the formatting, I'm still learning how best to post gifs from TSS.

Finish Question

Created: 18-Feb-07 02:32

Comments

Michael Better
Nationality: United States
0
1. No. By mark room definition LO only owes WI "room for [her] to leave a mark on the required side." If WI continued sailing her course from position 3 onward, she would have left the mark on the required side. WI's proper course is not relevant here.
2. Yes.
Created: 18-Feb-07 04:28
Ron Kallen
Nationality: United States
0

  1. Yes, rule 18 grants the right for WI to luff as needed to finish, since this is part of her right to mark-room at the zone, which entitled her to sail her proper course to finish as soon as possible. Her luff at 1 boat length from the mark (position 3) is permitted under rule 18 but is limited by rule 16.1 (changing course). Since the sudden luff by WI did not give LO room to keep clear, she violated rule 16.1 (but LO did not protest and there was no injury or damage). Moreover, the contact did not occur while WI was still racing. She had already crossed the finish line and rule 18 no longer applied since, by definition, she had “finished.” The protest by WI of LO is not upheld.

  1. The diagram shows that LO gave mark-room to WI. At only 1 boat length remaining (position 3) LO need not anticipate a sudden luff by WI and was not obligated to fall off to keep clear of WI, as she was also sailing her proper course. At position 4 when contact occurred, LO has also just finished and is no longer racing.
Created: 18-Feb-07 09:47
Boris Kuzminov
Nationality: Israel
0

1. No. By mark room definition LO only owes WI "room for [her] to leave a mark on the required side." If WI continued sailing her course from position 3 onward, she would have left the mark on the required side. WI's proper course is not relevant here.
2. Yes.


- I'm agree with Michael.

Part A of the definition of Mark Room includes: "Room to sail to the mark when her proper course is to sail close to the mark" therefor if she is sailing her PC and her PC is to sail close to the mark then should be give such room to sail close to the mark

At pos.4 (after the finish) Blue has not a proper course.
But if Blue does luff to finish as soon as possible close to the mark Yellow should be give her room for it.
Yellow
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Yellow
adjective
желтый
трусливый
ревнивый
завистливый
подозрительный
noun
желтый цвет
желтизна
желток
желтая краска
verb
желтеть
желтить
Звуковая функция ограничена 200 символами
Created: 18-Feb-07 10:57
Boris Kuzminov
Nationality: Israel
0
Ron, see RRS:



Created: 18-Feb-07 11:06
P
Angelo Guarino
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Mays .. IMO the problem with Blue being exonerated is that she didn't sail directly to the mark once inside the zone and in doing so put herself in such close proximity to LO (Yellow) that she couldn't change course to head-up to the mark. It appears by your drawing that if she headed directly to the pin from the moment she entered the zone, Blue would have had no reason to luff, and if she did luff, would have had plenty of room to keep clear.

Now it may be that Yellow was still not giving enough room .. but I think Blue's actions of falling down onto Yellow inside the zone and away from the mark creates enough doubt that it lifts the burden of proof from Yellow to Blue if sufficient room was given and how it was used.

The idea of providing sufficient room for another boat to change course without contact is a burden on a "keep-clear" boat .. not a 'give mark-room' boat. LO (Yellow) is not a keep-clear boat, rather Yellow is an ROW boat obligated to give mark-room .. so Yellow was under no obligation to continue to provide more room if sufficient mark-room was already provided.

That said, ...
  1. Blue has the right to head-up to the mark just prior to the moment she crosses .. that's part of the 'mark-room' she is entitled (assuming my caveats above).
  2. Once she hears her crossing signal, Blue needed to stop changing course if it would have caused contact as she is no longer sailing toward the mark .. at that point her only need is to clear the finish-line while keeping clear of Yellow. If the contact happened after Blue's crossing-signal due to Blue's continued course change, then I don't think Blue can be exonerated.
  3. If Blue headed straight to the mark once crossing the zone, luffed at the finish and transoms touched, Blue is exonerated and Yellow did not provide adequate mark-room.

Ang

PS ...
Review Case . Similair scenario but in Case 75 the boat sailing outside the "direct corridor" to the mark was a ROW boat (being on STB vs a port boat). This is not the case here. Yellow is the ROW boat and Blue is the Keep-Clear boat with Mark-Room rights.

From Case 75 .. notice the "direct corridor" language.

The mark-room that P was required to give S was the space S needed in the existing conditions to sail promptly to the mark in a seamanlike way.

That space was a direct corridor from S1 to a position close to and alongside the mark on the required side. P gave S that room. However, because S had right of way she was not required to remain within that corridor; she was permitted to sail any course provided that she complied with rules 16.1 and 18.4.

Created: 18-Feb-07 17:04
P
Kim Kymlicka
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • National Judge
  • National Umpire
0
Can we agree that at position 2, Blue is not sailing within the mark room she is entitled? Her course is clearly toward the RC boat, not to the pin end.
As she closed the distance btw her and Yellow at position 3, she is also no longer keeping clear. See Def of Keep Clear (b). No obligation on Yellow to give more room. (Yellow could have protested here, after all she may have wanted to luff up to the line or bear off for more speed, but was prevented from doing so).
As for PC, let's not forget the part of the definition that talks about ..in the absence of other boats...
From the diagram, Yellow gave Blue room to sail within rule 18.
Answers: No, Yes.
Kim
Created: 18-Feb-08 07:03
Ron Kallen
Nationality: United States
0
Thanks, Boris
Created: 18-Feb-08 11:57
P
Angelo Guarino
Nationality: United States
Certifications:
  • Regional Judge
  • Fleet Measurer
0
Kim said .

Can we agree that at position 2, Blue is not sailing within the mark room she is entitled?

Yea that was the point of my post (though with many more words!). Case 75 I think illustrates the inverse-case clearly.

My follow-on points were (which jives with yours)
  1. that Yellow may or may not have provided enough room, but it's hard to tell as Blue blows his advantage in the argument by sailing away from the mark and so close to Yellow that neither has room to maneuver.
  2. If Blue sailed directly to the mark, rounded up and hit sterns before her whistle, then Blue has a strong case that Yellow didn't provide enough room.
Created: 18-Feb-08 14:33
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