Forum: The Racing Rules of Sailing

Flying Double Headsails on downwind leg

Peter Baczek
Nationality: United States of America
I just completed a PHRF race today on San Francisco Bay and a boat just ahead of me (Merit 25) on the downwind leg flew two jibs with one whisker pole and main.  Is that legal in racing?  In our club racing, a rating credit of 18 sec/mile is available to boats rated with a spinnaker but electing not to fly one during the race.  The combined area of those two jibs was probably equal to the area of his spinnaker.  Is there a rule that addresses this issue? 

Thank you,

Peter

Created: 17-Jul-29 07:54

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Lloyd Causey
Nationality: United States of America
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  • Regional Judge
  • Regional Race Officer
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I find no specific prohibition in the RRS.  However in the GYA the PHRF is considered as a class.  It has its own set of class rules for the PHRF races in the Gulf Yachting Assn.  The do allow only one main, headsail and a staysail along with the spinnnaker from their rating certificate.  Look to the Bay Area rating group and I bet they have a set of rules for PHRF.
Created: 17-Jul-29 19:51
John Fox
Nationality: United States of America
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What rule was this boat breaking? As far as I can see, the answer is none. One may carry a jib and a spinnker at the same time, and in some boats they do that frequently. One may carry two jibs at the same time, but only one pole may be set.

50.1 states:  ........ only one mainsail and, except when changing, only one spinnaker shall be carried set at a time.
50.2 allows only one spinnaker pole or whisker pole to be used at a time.
Created: 17-Jul-29 19:57
Brent Draney
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http://www.yra.org/PHRF/docs/ncphrf_rules_and_guidelines.pdf

Read Part 1 Page 6.
Created: 17-Jul-29 20:13
Lloyd Causey
Nationality: United States of America
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Brent,
      That seems to prohibit sailing with more that one headsail.  Even when changing sails.

Peter,
     Go to that link  and read for yourself.  Part 1 page 6 of PHRF rules for YRA.

http://www.yra.org/PHRF/docs/ncphrf_rules_and_guidelines.pdf
 
Created: 17-Jul-29 20:30
Angelo Guarino
If he were to punch you in the face you would have to fight off a strong urge to thank him
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It's a class-rule and in non-OD fleets it's up to the local PHRF authority (or other rating rule) to dictate it. 

Headsails are are too narrow to qualify as a small spin, so they have to be specifically allowed. 

See how the PHRF of the Chesapeake Bay handles it in the following link, section 16. 

http://www.phrfchesbay.org/docs/sailregs.pdf

hope that helps. 
 
Created: 17-Jul-30 00:22
Peter Baczek
Nationality: United States of America
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Thank you Brent and everyone else.  NCPHRF Rules and Regulations state that in non-spinnaker fleet only one headsail can be flown at a time.

 
Created: 17-Jul-30 07:10
Brent Draney
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Hi Peter,

The question remains on whether or not a boat broke a rule.  In this case look at 78.1 You will need to protest under this rule and demonstrate that this rule was broken.  Having a fairly good guess as to what series this is I'm copying in the first 4 lines of BYC SI's as they are relevant. Handicap: Clearly puts the intent of following NCPHRF in the sailing instrructions.  No-spinnaker Rating Credit: clearly modifies Only those boats that are rated with a spinnaker and choose not to fly one.  I believe the intent of this credit rating is to encourage racing by those boats that may not be able to handle a kite in the big Berkeley afternoon breeze to continue to race without the risk of significant cost.  You will have to make the case, probably through a protest that a rating is violated by flying the second jib when claiming a non-spin credit that is applied through a SI modification.

This is an interesting read of the language and I hope that you use the Berkeley modified protest procedures to
have an open discussion on the topic.

SAILING INSTRUCTIONS FRIDAY NIGHT RACES 2017

Rules: Current World Sailing Racing Rules as adopted by US Sailing and as modified by these instructions.

Handicap: Northern California PHRF ratings will be used for time-on-distance handicapping. A copy of the current PHRF certificate is recommended, otherwise the Race Committee will assign a provisional rating. A copy of a PHRF certificate for an identical yacht may be acceptable for some classes.

No-spinnaker Rating Credit: A rating credit of 18 sec/mile is available to boats rated with a spinnaker but electing not to fly one during the race. To receive the credit, signal when crossing the finish line by waving a buoyant cushion or life jacket.

Roller-Furling Rating Credit: A rating credit of 12 sec/mile will be given to boats using only roller-furling headsails for upwind legs of the race. Boats that normally use roller-furling for one-design racing and boats with recessed drums that allow full-hoist roller-furling jibs are not eligible for this credit.

Protests: Protests shall be submitted to the Race Committee in writing within 90 minutes of the time the protesting yacht finishes or withdraws. Unless there is serious damage or injury, protest hearings will be conducted according to the BYC Rolling Mediation Hearing protocol, as in Appendix A to these instructions. This modifies RRS 61.2, 63.2, 63.3, 63.4 63.6. Protests are not discouraged. If there is injury or serious damage, protest hearings shall be in accordance with unmodified RSS at a time and date acceptable to all parties. Decisions resulting from Rolling Mediation may be appealed in-house and reviewed in accordance with unmodified RRS.
Created: 17-Jul-30 17:01
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